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    posted a message on Dongle and Ace, a friendly coexistance.
    Where's mankirk's wife?
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Dongle and Ace, a friendly coexistance.
    Quote from lapalapa »

    Ace and Wowace are part of a bigger thing. they terribly affects each other, the development tool and development community. you really shouldnt separate them - Ace never would look like it does now if not the wowace.com.


    Simple point, you don't have to be part of the ace community to write an ace addon, and nor should you. You also don't need to write ace addons to be part of the ace community. That separation does exist whether you like it or not, and its a good thing. The framework is not the community, and the community is not the framework. They have a clear symbiotic relationship.

    second misunderstanding is about developers write addons users use them - no, ofcourse not.
    first of all, most people here on wowace.com arent USERS, they are more of a betatesters, and sometime creative designers, both of those are jobs, and people in my world get payed for it - just as developers get paid for developing, every SINGLE company that works with IT products has their betatesters who work pretty hard to make final product work good (and sometimes even work, simply)


    Absolutely nowhere do I try to diminish the impact of the large community of beta testers. You along with a number of other people seem to not pay much attention to the extremely large number of USERS who aren't beta testers.. they just want their addons to work. You can't neglect them, even tho many people want to.

    so , again
    Ace is tool
    Wowace is environment
    you really shouldnt try to separate them, for, i hope, obvious reasons.
    we are back to where we were - Ace isnt a simply development tool and shouldnt be treated like that


    And I wholeheartedly disagree. My scenario allows for exactly what you're talking about, ensuring we allow these relationships and let the framework drive the community, and vice versa. Your scenario is closed minded and forces your view of the community on everyone, with no regards for other opinions. The world is larger than you want it to be.

    and
    developing in the wowace environment is far from "devs works users uses" paradigm you are insist on. because its simply not true, devs write code and users betatest and provide creative feedback (i, not a coder in anyway, tho i wrote some addons i use by myself but those are really minor, did at least 3 suggestions which are now incorporated in pretty well known addons including WaUpdater).


    I don't disagree at all.. but that's a factor of the community, not the framework.

    Such a twisted world...
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Dongle and Ace, a friendly coexistance.
    I'm not trying to force the distinction down someone's throat.. but to not bring it up and clarify in a thread specifically talking about this, would be assinine. Interesting indeed.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Dongle and Ace, a friendly coexistance.
    Quote from lapalapa »

    major contradicion and misunderstanding in this topic

    Ace almost NEVER been development tool. from the start of wowace.com it was a community


    Actually, this just plain isn't true. I've been around since almost the very beginning, and Kaelten absolutely has been.

    the difference is H U G E. if you ever worked on any project (or job) that includes dynamic development in unstable environment (and programing for WoW is) you will probably notice that its not only the developers matters (like it was said over over over and over again, developing tools for developers tadaaam only) but also global architects, feedback providers, management (like maintaining this site, forums, WaU stability and stuff and stuff) and whola lota other things

    when talking about software development please once and forever forget about "devs and users" approach.
    1st, because devs are not the only who actually develop. mainstream tendencies, tools and information on them availability - it all matters. community provides just that.
    2nd, because some users are not simple users. some people arent that deep in development process but still are pretty intelligent and creative - they often come up with bright ideas everyone is happy to use.
    for example - read the story about diablo II creation process, some fans were working almost for free with team for months just to make the game better and believe me i've seen some examples like this in different areas.

    wowace isnt a development tool anymore, in no way. its a development tool + community, and community means a lot.
    yes, it brings more responsibility to devs and community managers to keep it in a good shape, but it CANT be bad.
    i use Aced addons for may be 2 years (not sure, i started with aced MiniGroup unit frames by AndreasAg), and for all those years it became only better.


    You are the one who misunderstand sir. Ace is a framework. Wowace is somethign entirely different, so don't get them confused.

    i really cant see why anyone in sane mind will critisize Ace2 for anything - it works, it doesnt bring problems just opposite - it solves them, it lessend my memory usage to less then 30kibs and never goes above it.
    all this talks about "dongle is oldschool ace, for developers not for fanbois", guys, really, get a break. fans are those who make addons live. you can come up with one single good design concept and exploit it for your whole carrier, may be 2, but communities like wowace PROVOKES you to bring new designs.


    No offense, but these are your opinions. You need to stop treating them like they are fact.

    i use at least 2 addons published in 2007 only - like litmus (perfect pair to grid) and quartz (which is simply amazing) and some others i wont recall now.

    so, again, its not about framework, its not about memory efficiency - what really matters are people around the project, and what helps those good people find each other is a good platform, a good community. and wowace is a good community.


    You sir, missed the entire point of this thread, and that's unfortunate. We've had a lot of positive discussion here.

    I will summarize as much as possible:
    - Ace is a framework for writing adons
    - Dongle is a different framework for writing addons
    - Kaelten and I both get along quite well, as colleagues and friends
    - Wowace is a community, including the svn, the forums, the wiki and the irc channel
    - Developers write addons
    - Users use addons

    Among other valid points and opinions.. I'm not sure where you think the misconceptions and misunderstanding are here, but your thread is the first evidence I've seen.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Dongle and Ace, a friendly coexistance.
    To take things a bit off-topic from Ace/Dongle, I'd just like to say that its disappointing that we're almost three years into this process, and we still don't have a good engineered solution for updating addons at the major addon sites. While the particular way the wowace updaters annoys the ever loving crap out of me, I'm confident in saying it is the primary reason for the popularity of the ace community.

    I know why we don't.. because it would be nigh impossible to find a solution that lets the sites advertise as they need to, while not just simply leeching bandwidth from these major sites. Its sad that's whats best for the users isn't in the best interest of the sites.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Dongle and Ace, a friendly coexistance.
    Quote from Bobwich III »

    Yeah the first sentence I was correcting you, and the rest was just me agreeing and expounding on your post.


    yes, and I maintain that sharemedialibrary has no reason to be ace. It should use AceLibrary and nothign else, but *shrug*
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Dongle and Ace, a friendly coexistance.
    Quote from Bobwich III »

    Quote from cladhaire »

    Again, not an Ace thing. SharedMediaLib shoudln't even use Ace.. its stupid that it does. Any addon already can (and I'm sure do) hook into the library if users intend to use it.


    No, the problem is that it's only an Ace thing. Many Ace addons/authors use SharedMedia because most people in the Ace community know about it and it's a great library. The problem is that I don't think authors outside this site know that they have this powerful library available to them. Also, I think some nonAce authors are discouraged when they hear Ace being thrown around because Ace is a community and they are just one person. I believe we need to open the lines of communication and have this community spread out into other places to spread the wealth of knowledge (like the fact SharedMedia Exists) and creativity of this community.


    Uhh, that's what I said.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Dongle and Ace, a friendly coexistance.
    Quote from Vincent »

    The only reason I identify my mods with Ace is so that folks like myself will look at two comparable mods and be able to say "gee, I've got 15 Ace mods, this one might give me better performance" or "gee, I run no Ace mods, this one will be more bloated than needed" if nothing else in terms of features swayed them. Pretty much my thinking pattern any more since I've wound up running so many mods that are on the Ace framework. Otherwise, it'd just be an incidental note offering credit where it's due.


    In this case sure, because Ace is too large to just "forget about" when you only have one Ace addon, but that's a problem specific to Ace at the moment.

    Identifying the framework is as necessary as identifying that your iPod only works with iTunes because that little bit of infrastructure is rather useful knowledge. When someone told me about Omen I though "big deal, another threat mod" then "it tracks threat per mob" and I was all ears (ktm killed me that damn much) but when it came to "it's an Ace mod" here's what came to mind: Oh, sweet, it'll prolly hook into SharedMediaLib so I'm not stuck with some stupid bar texture I can't read and sounds I can't stand so on this particular subject I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree. Ace, Dongle, TokenRing, Ethernet...sometimes the guts are relevant.


    Again, not an Ace thing. SharedMediaLib shoudln't even use Ace.. its stupid that it does. Any addon already can (and I'm sure do) hook into the library if users intend to use it.

    The *only* reason stuff like this happens is because addons that have no need to be Ace, get Aced, and even worse, they don't get released to the general public. Sure, when you have a number of addons that are part of the "kool kids klub" you want to know what other ones are there.

    Drastic differences in design decisions, that's all.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Dongle and Ace, a friendly coexistance.
    Quote from Srosh »

    Dongle will eventually meet the same fate. Even now there are fanbois that (until now praised Ace2) detest Ace2 and praise Dongle.

    Just watch #dongle a while and you'll see it. Nothing to be done about it, tho', it's human nature.

    Nothing survives the contact with a human for long.



    Except I've fought that attitude since the very beginning, and I will continue to do so. I may be fighting a losing battle, but I will absolutely continue to fight.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Dongle and Ace, a friendly coexistance.
    Anyone who's been in this project long enough knows that I've always vehemently detested the idea of the -Ace2- tag, and it was added to both Clique and PerfectRaid multiple times. I got sick of my addons being changed, zipped up automatically and being in the hands of my users before I could even get a chance to revert the change. The -Ace2- tag does bring a level of recognition to the project, but its just a matter of difference. Even if you removed it from in-game, you'd get the people who think ONLY ace addons come from WAU and if it's not on WAU its not an Ace addon.

    The tag has no problems on its own, but combine it with users and it gets nasty =)
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Dongle and Ace, a friendly coexistance.
    I have no issues with anyone, but its been clear that people have issues with me, through childish boycotts and the like. That's the human element that causes drama, when it doesn't need to exist.

    Dongle has some very simple rules.. I decide what goes into it, and we have a discussion about any additions or changes. It is not design by committee, but we solicit feedback from the core team before making a large decision. You'll never see an addon labelled as "Dongle" because it simply doesn't matter. The only people who should have any concern with Dongle, are developers.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Fixing the Raid Lockup Problem!
    Quote from Zek »

    Quote from Ragnor »
    Bump for Nevcairiel or Saroz, for battleground/arena raids you'll need to do the above I think. Although I haven't had any problems myself there are a few reports of missing or incorrect names.

    Yes, I have the same issue with X-Perl. Will have a fiddle with updating the names OnShow if that is enough.

    As for why the UNIT_NAME_UPDATE thing affects some people more than others. You tend to hear people's worst reports. Where there are more pets in a raid, you are likely to get an exponential increase in the number of events fired.

    Also, I beleive PerfectRaid uses a single raid header (correct me if wrong), and so there is 8 times less header updates being triggered than with X-Perl for example.


    PerfectRaid uses as many headers as the user has set up (could be 9, could be 1). You are correct that by default, a single header is used-- that may make a big difference.
    Posted in: Unit Frames
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    posted a message on Fixing the Raid Lockup Problem!
    Yeah, that's what Saroz and I were trying to do today, and we ran into a wall. I agree.
    Posted in: Unit Frames
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    posted a message on Fixing the Raid Lockup Problem!
    No to mention why it affects some mods and not others.
    Posted in: Unit Frames
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    posted a message on Fixing the Raid Lockup Problem!
    It will stop any header that uses nameList from working.
    Posted in: Unit Frames
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