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    posted a message on Reporting bugs: some basic tips
    Quote from tekkub »

    I like it, but it needs some work. I'll be moving the page to a better name soon.


    I actually thought about this quite a lot (as you will see from the small essay below), and it was a while before I chose "Reporting_Bugs". While I respect your right to change it to whatever you consider a better name, would you at least please invite comments? At least for me. :)

    Just to let you know my train of thought: I wanted the name of the article to be descriptive, accurate, easy to remember, and relevant.

    (I was anticipating using the URL in replies to bug reports where it would be useful for the author to improve them in some way, possibly quite often. I imagined my replies as being simply the URL, although maybe with some of the article copied + pasted if it was specifically relevant or particularly helpful - so I tried to pick a title that would immediately show what it was about; I wanted it to be accurate, because if someone clicked the link and saw something that didn't fit the title, they wouldn't even get to the content of the article before becoming confused about it. I also hoped that it might be something that people found useful enough to recommend so it had to be simple enough to remember easily, or at least simple enough that it was easy to find again. And, relevant, because again as I wanted to use the article URL as a post in itself, I tried to think of something that would make sense as a response to different types of posts - or at least, not not make sense as a reply.)

    First I thought of things like "How to write good bug reports" or "Tips on writing good bug reports". I chose "Writing bug reports" because it was shorter, basically. However it's a bit formal and would be more appropriate to more in-depth look at writing bug reports than the short helper list I was hoping would actually be read by the people writing the reports. It's also probably not as likely to be found again as something including the phrase "bug reports", as "Reporting bugs" is slightly different - not as commonly used so not as likely to be the first thing the comes into someone's mind when they've forgotten the actual title.

    (I actually had the same problem again when thinking of the subject of this post (which has different criteria, slightly).)

    So! I would say that if the title were to be changed, I would use "Writing Good Bug Reports" (possibly substituting "Good" with something that might seem more applicable - maybe Quality or Useful. I dunno). It's fairly short, easy to search for, descriptive, hopefully accurate, and more likely to imply a list of tips rather than an in-depth tutorial.

    Choo choo! The train has arrived and thank fuck for that.

    Quote from tekkub »

    What I think needs done:
    * Less "Wall of text"... divide it out into short, concise, logical sections.


    Yeah, very true - the formatting needs work for sure. (If it'd been a plain text file I would've done a much better job! If it'd been a plain HTML file I would've too! Bloody wiki markup though, I don't write enough to remember all the little bits off the top of my head.)

    One thing is perhaps to make the main points at the top, with the more detailed and possibly less relevant or important advice below.

    Quote from tekkub »

    * Put a MAJOR emphasis on getting bug reports to the right place. Many users don't realize that posting to a forum thread is not enough for me. I read it, I might even think it's a great idea, and then the next time I sit down and work on the addon I forget all about it cause it's not on my tracker. Providing good reports don't do shit if it's not in the right place.


    That's very true, yes. However I did want to make it specific to WoWAce in particular, and I would have to say that the forum thread is the place to report bugs for most of the addons I know of. Don't read that to mean that I don't agree with you about emphasising the importance of where the bug is reported - I mean, I just did agree with you in my previous sentence :) - but I'm not sure that such a MAJOR emphasis is a good idea; just emphasis, maybe. :) I'm not sure it's a good idea to attempt to make something that covered all WoW addons in general (even though it may largely be useful in general) because it would make it necessary to include more information about the different possible ways of reporting bugs and what is expected from whom, while also limiting the detail of the advice given

    Perhaps putting something like:

    • MAKE SURE you are reporting your bug in the right place.
    • For example, if you are reporting your bug in a forum thread, this may not be checked by the addon author in the near future - or at all - as some developers use alternative methods for tracking bugs. See below for some places to check if you're not certain that the developer will be checking wherever you are posting your report.

    ?

    Quote from tekkub »

    * Provide LINKS!
    * Help people read the debug stack a tad... embed reports often go to the wrong place... would be good ta make the user aware that the issue may not be with the mod reporting it


    Thanks Tekkub, these are all great suggestions.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Reporting bugs: some basic tips
    Quote from Moon Witch »

    Hello Fin,

    While you're tired, I admire your effort to "hide" an error, but still I saw it :P Just didn't know if you left it there as a joke or not, which is why I didn't edit it myself. Seerah did as she said.




    This is as humour-free as I can make it:

    When I created the page, I made a mistake and pasted the extra line that was part of my post and should not have been on the wiki article. You caught the mistake, and said something here. When I read your post, I went to the wiki page and removed the offending line - or so I thought - and then replied to your post in a deliberately unconvincing manner claiming that the error had never existed. However, because I was tired I had not edited the page at all. Later Seerah corrected this.

    My sincere apologies for attempting to be funny when I should really know better.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Minimap Blackout
    Quote from Kyron »

    Well, point not taken there, firewalls and antiviruses help, nothing help with Mac


    Psst! Don't tell anyone, but the Internet is fucked! Yeah! I know! Turns out, firewalls and antiviruses just can't keep up with the combined weight and are crumbling under the pressure! Something to do with human capability for errors being greater than a computer's potential for automatically fixing them; I don't understand it myself.

    Quote from Kyron »

    but that belongs to another topic.


    I disagree. If topics weren't meant to digress, why would we be allowed to keep posting?
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Tool to weed out unused addons/libraries?
    Quote from tekkub »

    I'm all for heavy moderation, but I doubt Kael would ever go for it.

    Take, for example, Elitist Jerks. Sure, they're jerks... but they keep the posters in line.

    We need to give the mods some overcharged cattle prods.


    Who would you ask to be a moderator?
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on SpellBinder - TBC Actionbar-Free Key Binds
    Quote from tomjanda »

    Hi,

    is there any way how to find out which spells/macros are key-binded and with which key? I have the latest version, but the list button does not show anything (as u can see in attached file).

    Thx,
    Tomas


    This apparently is caused by a Blizzard bug, and will be fixed in a future patch.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on Reporting bugs: some basic tips
    Quote from Seerah »

    I took the Prat stuff out of the wiki page today. It was left over from the copy/paste from the Prat thread.


    Huh. I'd swear I removed that before replying to Xinhuan's post - I was only joking when I said that it was never there. :) Of course it was there, I fucked up and pasted too much from my original post in the Prat thread, yes, and was making one of my hilarious witty hahas by fixing the page and pretending that I'd never fucked up in the first place. But, huh, wow, just checked the edit log and apparently that didn't happen. Hello! I'm Fin and I'm: tired.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Reporting bugs: some basic tips
    Quote from Astaldo »

    I know wikis are collaborative endeavors but I still have some inhibitions about editing someone else's public page :)

    Either way is fine.


    Please, go ahead and update it! If it's a major change, I think it's polite to write something in the discussion page of an article to explain your reasoning, but otherwise all that's needed is a note in the edit log. :)

    However, lazy contributions are better than no contributions, so I'm happy to update it for you if you like. :)
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Freerefills not working.
    Quote from wT »

    Seeing this is the newest thread about Freerefills:

    I use it for all kinds of small stuff like reagents, and took the liberty to fix it to use char-profiles by default again (Was very puzzled at first (and quite a lot lighter on the wallet) when I found five stacks of arcane powder and some teleport/portal stones on my warrior), and replaced the bunch of variables created in the loop with a select.

    Hopefully I didn't break it, and I hope no one minds these :)


    Personally I am glad you did this. And thanks for cleaning up my fix. :) (Lua is still not that intuitive for me, and I was just concentrating on getting it working. :))
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on Tool to weed out unused addons/libraries?
    Quote from Seerah »

    And here is the win statement, folks. :) If the above suggested methods do not suit you, then embedded libraries are for you. :)


    OK, I have to say, when I saw this thread I assumed that only people who were using unembedded libs (which you generally do by choice - it's something that people who are aware of the factors involved decide to do after thinking about it (sometimes, yeah, I know :))). So, I'm not sure using embedded libs is an option. :)

    Perhaps I'm being naive in my estimate of people's understanding. Oh well.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Troubles finding a lib
    Quote from Industrial »

    I never called anyone an idiot.


    Never?
    Posted in: Libraries
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    posted a message on Reporting bugs: some basic tips
    Quote from Astaldo »

    Pretty nice.

    I'd suggest
    dir /ad /b "c:\Program Files\World of Warcraft\Interface\Addons\" > c:\myaddons.txt

    for the addon listing.
    /ad = only include top directories
    /b = bare format (you had that one already)
    double quotes around the path (command interpreter doesn't like spaces)
    > c:\myaddons.txt = redirect the addon listing to a text file for easier inclusion as attachment.



    I agree with your suggestion. Would you update the page yourself, or should I?
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Reporting bugs: some basic tips
    Quote from Moon Witch »

    Sadly, most people that post bugs in which an author asks for more info are just those people who often neglect to /search or check a wiki, so it's likely it won't change much. But nonetheless, I hope it will be very useful..


    Well, yeah, I know what you mean, and I wasn't really expecting the bug reporters to search the wiki on how to report a bug first. (I hadn't until recently!) It was more something that could be used (at least by me) as could be used when replying to incomplete bug reports - instead of having to type out what exactly the poster needs to tell us, just point to that page (and maybe copy + paste the relevant bits).


    Though what is this part doing on the wiki page ?


    What is what doing on the wiki page? I have no idea what you're talking about, there is nothing of the sort there, your eyes must be deceiving you. Yes. It was never there.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Ace2'd LoadIt replacement
    Quote from Farook »

    "ACP" is your friend. ^^


    Fixed!
    Posted in: Addon Ideas
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    posted a message on [Prat] How to display <Name:Level> instead of <Level:Name>?
    Quote from sylvanaar »

    Its easy, you have to patch the code to do it though.


    Well, yeah, sorry, I didn't mention that you could do it like this - I assumed you weren't thinking about patching anything. Sorry.

    Quote from sylvanaar »

    Fin - what is so bad about the playernames module?


    Nothing! I just don't use it. Personally the extra information gets in the way for me, I don't actually pay any attention to the level numbers and group numbers and colours and stuff when it's there, so I don't bother enabling it. :)

    I think that maybe The PlayerNames module does give Prat a slight reputation as a memory hog though, as the default configuration saves (basic) player data and quite quickly starts using up 1MB+ (which is normally quite high on the list of addons listed by memory use). I know that this doesn't mean dick, but I've noticed people call Prat a hog after seeing Prat at the top of FuBar_Performance because of this.

    Oh, and also the code scares me.

    I don't think either of those things are anything wrong with the PlayerNames module!
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on Tool to weed out unused addons/libraries?
    Quote from VuBce »

    If anything, WAU makes it easier to keep your folder organised.


    Quote from Buio »

    Strange, I've used WAU long time and never had any problems with keeping order in the addon folder even so.


    What? Huh? The last two posts have confused me. You have no problems "keeping order" and WAU (where did that come from?) keeps the addons folder "more organised"? By this, do you mean that (as I asked in my post below) you are confident are you that the addons you use - and update, I assume - haven't moved on to updated versions of their libraries, leaving bits behind that you're no longer using? How often do you check? How do you check?

    cheers,

    - Fin
    Posted in: General Chat
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