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    posted a message on Skillet - Official Thread
    Quote from MegaManJuno »
    Fact is, there are documented issues with it in this very thread. Queueing up things for crafting at times leads to other unrelated crap being added to the queue as well... something I believe lilsparky is working on ironing out in his branch (along with a lot of other stuff). The fact that you haven't seen these issues is pretty much irrelevant... they still exist, regardless. Do you have any engineers by chance (one profession I know of where I have personally experienced this issue)?



    My comments were only to address the issue raised by the other poster that bumping a .toc "certifies" the addon as stable under the current game version. To me, it most certainly appears stable enough. I wasn't attempting to suggest the addon is without issue and free from defect. Nothing in this game is bug-free, but this addon is at least stable enough to warrant having an updated .toc. And yes, I have two engineers and I've personally not had the chance to see any of the errors mentioned here. Granted, both of my engineers are twinks and I haven't used their respective professions much, so my usage is limited I suppose.

    In any case, this addon is at least as stable as most other things out there (certainly that I use) and the point was only that it meets "certification" criteria as mentioned here previously. I'm not trying to change an opinion, I'm only asking for an update for something which is FREQUENTLY overlooked or forgotten about (the .toc). I'm not necessarily saying someone overlooked it with Skillet, but perhaps this was/is the case. As far as I know, this addon had these issues among others under 2.3 and had a current .toc at that point and loaded without having to load out of date addons. What's the difference now? Why would updating the .toc at this point under 2.4 "certify" it to any standard higher than existed prior to 2.4? See my point?

    Thanks
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on Skillet - Official Thread
    Quote from lilsparky »

    skillet doesn't do anything different under 2.4 that it does under 2.3 that i'm aware of. updating the toc seems harmless enough. the only issue is... who should do this? nogudnik ain't been around for a while.



    Thank you much. That's all I was after.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on Skillet - Official Thread
    Quote from MegaManJuno »

    If "Little Johnny Guildie" is too stupid to see the "addons" button on the character selection screen, click it, see the message next to the addon in question that states "out of date", and then click the box at the top of the window to tell it to "load out of date addons"... Little Johnny Guildie needs to return his computer, because that's about as idiot-proof as it can be. :P

    Bumping TOCs just due to user stupidity (i.e.: no good reason) is pointless.


    If we start eliminating the idiots from wow, we'll have about 10 guys left. 1 Alliance. You know as well as I do that not everyone who is ignorant of these types of things aren't idiots. I didn't say "just due to user stupidity". I pointed out that's a benefit to save the smart folks in here some grief from those idiots coming here posting things and taking up valuable time that could be spent better, well, picking up the slack for Blizzard's shortcomings. Get my drift?
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on Skillet - Official Thread
    Quote from Chmee »

    IMO, when an addon author updates the toc to indicate compatibility with a given version of WoW, he is certifying that he has tested his addon under that version, and that (absent minor, non-fatal errors, perhaps) it works. I haven't written any addons, but I have been a programmer, and I know that, for me at least, the only thing in programming that I like less than testing is documentation. After all, how to use the software I write should be intuitively obvious to anyone with a brain, should it not? And when writing software, there's no need to test it, because I don't make misteaks. :-)

    Anyway, my point is that if the addon author isn't willing to make that certification (after all, all addons are "beta" software) then he is right not to update the toc.


    Allow me to point out the contradiction in your logic here...

    1) You stated "all addons are "beta" software". This is correct and generally very widely known amongst addon users/enthusiasts, etc. I'm not a betting man, but I'd wager that 99.99% of the people reading this forum consider everything in the land of wow (sometimes even the game itself feels like a paid beta) to be "beta" status. That's a given, especially amongst this crowd.

    2) Your suggest that (in your opinion) a mod author is somehow "certifying" his software to be "release" quality simply from updating the .toc to the current game version (in this case - 20400).

    Considering what you have just posted, can you consider the following questions?

    1) Do you consider everything that has a current .toc to be certified as "release" quality? If so, how is it that all addons, or even most addons are (by your words) "beta" software? If not, why would you expect any addon to be "release" quality simply from having a compatible .toc?

    2) Given the blurry lines between what the addon community calls "beta" and what most industry "standards" consider "release" software, honestly how is any 3rd party work ever NOT true beta?

    In my opinion, "beta" in the wow community is a term to indicate a "less broken" piece of work. It does not indicate any sort of "release" or "finished product" by any general software standard(s). I personally don't even consider wow itself to be out of beta. It's loaded with bugs and very little pre-release testing, etc. Blizzard puts out beta quality software and expects the community to do their own beta testing, bug reporting, troubleshooting, etc. As we all know, their best R&D comes from stealing mod community ideas and integrating into their own product. Anyway, I'm going off subject and I apologize.

    I just don't see anything in the entire game community, mod community, etc. that *I* consider to be anything close to a "release" standard. It's all beta, most of us know that. What's the big deal about editing a .toc? None that I can see. In fact, there's a few benefits to it that you may not even realize...

    1) Current .toc allows the mod to load under the current game version. This prevents little Johnny Guildie from ripping apart his wow directory trying to "fix" his own problem because he can't get XX addon to load like his buddies. Little Johnny Guildie has never heard of the WowAce Forums and doesn't know where to go for help. He barely knows how to install a mod let alone troubleshoot them.

    2) Because little Johnny Guildie has screwed up his installation, trying to figure out why Skillet won't load anymore (and all he did was update it after 2.4), his more knowledgeable friend tells him about WowAce Forums. Little Johnny Guildie comes here and begins posting irrelevant and cryptic technical information trying to get help and wasting important people's time when his only problem was not having "load out of date" checked.

    Skillet, as it pertains to this .toc discussion, certainly has no major issues such as those you stated might prevent something from being "certified" with having an updated .toc. Fact is, I never see anything wrong with it and it's one of the only addons I use that I *never* have issues with. To me, it very well may be the most stable addon I use. In any event, I also realize that (as you said yourself) programmer types rarely pay attention to "little details" such as documentation, etc. This can sometimes include them forgetting to update .toc's. I have spoken to authors/updaters who have even made typos in updating .toc's and they were glad to have the reminders.

    All things considered, please update the .toc to save grief ;) That's all I requested here.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on Skillet - Official Thread
    Please change to 20400. I don't like having to load out-of-date addons for this to load properly (without my own editing of the toc).

    Thanks
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on Omen2
    My version info : r70415 | ananhaid | 2008-04-19 02:39:47 -0400 (Sat, 19 Apr 2008) | 2 lines

    What exactly is going on with Omen since the 2.4 patch? I am not seeing data from anyone else on a consistent basis. I understand that the OTHER threat meters out there no longer read from Threat 2.0 and will not, as a result, be seen with Omen2. However, I cannot even see consistent data from players using Threat 2.0 and the latest Omen2 revision(s). I only sometimes see blips on the threat bars. I almost never see data. The window even seems to have a mind of its own now. It randomly minimizes/maximizes at odd times (when people join party, when I zone, etc).

    I understand 99.99% of the mods in the wonderful land of WOW are "beta" at all times, and I know this is a work in progress like everything else but is there anything I can/should do to increase the reliability of this great tool? I have wiped my entire data cache/interface folders, reinstalled everything from scratch, and believe I have done everything possible to eliminate the chance of version conflicts, etc. I typically use wau for updates. I use the default mode WITH externals. Is there any advice anyone can give me, or are these problems we're all waiting to be resolved?

    Thanks for a great tool and I appreciate your efforts.

    By the way, is there any future chance of having shaman totems merged with players similar to hunters/pets?
    Posted in: Raid AddOns
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