If I remember right, UnitInRange doesn't work for dead units and under a bunch of other situations too. His setup is probably using it for a 38 yd range check.
As an avid Discipline Priest and Grid user, I've always been hopeful that the combatlog coding would eventually allow for the absorption healing we do to be included alongside "normal" healing. While I know we're not quite there yet, and eventhough I use various addons and grid addins to give me an estimate of my shield on a target, I would like to know if the following feature could be implemented in Grid in any way:
A special "Absorption Healing" mode to be toggled, in which each players' grid more accurately displays the "real" amount of health remaining.
As it is now, a player with 30k hp, sitting at 10k, but with a PW:S on him, will show as being on 1/3 HP. While this is of course still accurate, it does not display that he will in fact be able to take approximately 18-19k damage before he dies.
Such information would mainly be useful for healers, as you often see other raid healers targetting low hp players with a full shield up rather than another player who's at equal low HP but who does not have the shield (typically due to Weakened Soul debuff). While it is possible to add indicators to show shields, having it included in the actual health shown would be much more intuitive and representative for the actual remaining HP of the player.
I'd suggest the feature, if possible, should be toggled off by default, but I imagine many who regularly raid with disc priests would find it useful.
The two main problems I see with it at the moment are:
1. It is not possible through the current combatlog system to monitor remaining shield values as accurately as remaining HP values.
2. When a target on full health receives a shield, either the "extra hp" added would need to go outside the grid box, or alternatively be considered an increase in maximum HP and thus remain at 100%, but with the absolute HP value adjusted accordingly (I imagine the latter is the preferable, if possible). I believe this is also how it works when temporary HP increasing abilities are used, such as feral druids Survival Instincts?
Any thoughts if this is possible currently? I would ticket it as a feature request, but first I'd like to know if such coding (I'm quite at a loss when it comes to any coding) would be possible, and subsequently I'd bring it up with other priests and healers to see if there's general support for such a feature. There are also a few potential cons to the feature even if implemented properly (that I can think of), but I'll refrain from going into a discussion of that for now.
Thanks for an absolutely amazing addon concept, btw :) I couldn't imagine healing without Grid any more.
Shields are good because they provide a form of healing beyond the traditional direct or hot healing. I think if you want this kind of detail they need indicators that are specific to shields.
So shields should not be incorporated into health. The underlying health needs to be cured regardless. There are really just two health sizes: tanks & everyone else. Adjusting the max would just make it so you have no idea how to relate a deficit size to the heal size required to fix it for a particular character.
Some kind of bar indicator would be better I think. Or a color coded square based on shield size etc.
Another approach is to have shields show up like heals do at the moment. So if your heals show up as green or lighter colored on top of the health deficit, then perhaps shields can similarly show as an additional layer on top of both the heals and health bars.
As you say this does all depend on Blizzard providing the data needed though.
And yes, Pastamancer & Maia did a brilliant thing conceiving and implementing Grid.
2. When a target on full health receives a shield ... the "extra hp" added would ... be considered an increase in maximum HP and thus remain at 100%, but with the absolute HP value adjusted accordingly (I imagine the latter is the preferable, if possible). I believe this is also how it works when temporary HP increasing abilities are used, such as feral druids Survival Instincts?
Even if you could get 100% accurate values for absorption effects, I think this would be very misleading. Survival Instincts actually increases the amount of health a bear has; it does not reduce the amount of damage taken from incoming attacks. Power Word: Shield does not actually increase the amount of health the target has; it does reduce the amount of damage taken from incoming attacks (by 100%).
Shields do not increase a player's health, or affect the player's health in any other way. Rather, they are more like Shield Wall, Barkskin, or other effects that reduce incoming damage, even though they reduce that damage by 100%. These are two different mechanics, just as healing and absorption are two different mechanics. By trying to make them all the same mechanic, you really lose out on some of the fine nuances that a good healer can use to make better healing decisions.
While I'd generally agree that if all other things are equal (eg. neither target is actively taking damage) then healing someone at 25% health without a shield is a higher priority than healing someone at 25% health with a shield, the fact remains that both players are missing 75% of their health and will need to be healed no matter how many shields they receive.
Another concern would be that many healers, myself included, look at the changes in a unit's health bar to determine whether the unit is actively taking damage. Changing the health bar value every time a unit gained or lost a shield would actually reduce the amount of information available.
You're welcome to write a plugin to add the functionality you're describing, or find someone to write one, but it's not something that is likely to be added to the Grid core.
You both make some very valid points, thanks for that. I guess I was mainly seeking someone to bounce this idea off, and I have a hard time finding any counter-arguments for the points you make.
I didn't as such see shields incorporated into health points as a feature disc priests themselves need, as I think most of us have a pretty good idea about the strength of our shields on different targets (there are grid plugins available for corner indicators for just this, which works pretty well).
As I believe what you say Phanx, about most healers estimating incoming damage on a target by their fluctuations in HP, is true, then the typical good healer will likely choose to heal the correct target (i.e. the one without a shield whose health keeps dropping). If he is or isn't aware that the reason the other players health isn't dropping is because of a shield, is actually irrelevant.
Think I'll archive this idea along with so many similar in the trashbin :-)
Keep up the good work, and thanks for your feedback on my ramblings.
Juliet wrote GridstatusShield http://www.wowace.com/addons/gsshield/
That has a Text Indicator on the amount absorbed. I use it on the Text3Indikator. So i see
1/3 Health bar
T1: Name
T2: -20k Health
T3: 6k Shield left.
Maybe this works for you. Where it is only accurate on yourself or somebody using (the same, similar, ...) addon, as it has to know about your spellpower, talents to properly calculate the shield. E.g. it will calculate 6k with all information - if this information is lacking (as combat log doesn´t tell) it will choose the smallest amount possible - something around 1.5k - even if the actual shield has a higher potential.
I would love to have a plugin that adds HoT bars such as the ones implemented in Vuhdo. they are similar to GridManaBars, but just with HoTs like Rejuv/Riptide/Renew, etc. ticking down on bars. I apologize if this isn't the right place to ask for such a plugin, but wasn't sure where else I would post.
I've been experimenting with Vuhdo because of the rave reviews, and I must say that these HoT bars are the only thing that I really love, that Grid cannot already do.
I understand that it may be possible to do something like this with GridControlPipes, but afaik that only works for one hot. On Vuhdo you can add up to 3 "bars" separate from ManaBars for different hots.
I'm pretty sure there is already at least one plugin that adds bars for HoTs; however, timer bars for HoTs or other buffs are outside the intended scope of Grid, and will never be added to the core addon. I don't play any classes where buff durations actually matter, but if I did, I think a simple color change when the remaining duration fell below some threshold (say, 2 or 3 GCDs) would suffice.
Also, have you tried one of the plugins that adds additional icon indicators with support for showing durations via "cooldown spirals"? It seems like having three small icons along the bottom of the frame, for instance, would take up less space than three full timer bars.
Maybe my computer just completely stinks (which it does after 3 years of no upgrades), but when running Grid I get a periodic stutter. Every 1-2 secs. When I run a few of the mods along with Grid it gets worse. Are there any features in Grid I should disable to help remove the stutter?
How does Grid aggro alert work? In pvp, it doesnt seem to light up at all, which may be as intended, but I was trying out vuhdo and it lights up aggro indicators when someone is targeted in BGs.. which is somewhat useful and could be useful in stuff like 5v5s.
ETA: i dont want to make it sound like i'm comparing grid to vuhdo and it falls short.. it doesn't. If it did I would just use vuhdo. I like Grid and have been using it for years, but i did want to ask about a few features that i've noticed while trialing Vuhdo.
I do use the icon type stuff, but generally stick to indicators because icons are usually too small for me to distinguish when I have several different types of hots, and same iwth cooldown spirals/numbers. The indicators changing color is fine, but the hot bars are kind of nifty in Vuhdo as a visual cue for hot duration.
It uses the threat API. Since players don't have threat tables, nothing will show up in PvP. If you want a "this player is the target of something hostile" style aggro status (which is what Grid had before the threat API was added, and is probably what VuhDo is using), grab GridStatusBanzai.
Im not sure if this is the correct thread to post about this.
Anyways...im trying to make grid be transparent when people is at full health, sadly i tried everything i know about Grid...but i cannot make it look like these at all:
I searched this thread (for blacklist, filter), google and the addon options in-game.
Just in case I'm blind is there a way to add specific debuffs to a blacklist?
(unstable affliction type)
I have the border showing generic debuffs my class can remove (like curse, disease etc)
but would like to blacklist specific debuffs from "lighting up" the category.
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Curse PremiumA special "Absorption Healing" mode to be toggled, in which each players' grid more accurately displays the "real" amount of health remaining.
As it is now, a player with 30k hp, sitting at 10k, but with a PW:S on him, will show as being on 1/3 HP. While this is of course still accurate, it does not display that he will in fact be able to take approximately 18-19k damage before he dies.
Such information would mainly be useful for healers, as you often see other raid healers targetting low hp players with a full shield up rather than another player who's at equal low HP but who does not have the shield (typically due to Weakened Soul debuff). While it is possible to add indicators to show shields, having it included in the actual health shown would be much more intuitive and representative for the actual remaining HP of the player.
I'd suggest the feature, if possible, should be toggled off by default, but I imagine many who regularly raid with disc priests would find it useful.
The two main problems I see with it at the moment are:
1. It is not possible through the current combatlog system to monitor remaining shield values as accurately as remaining HP values.
2. When a target on full health receives a shield, either the "extra hp" added would need to go outside the grid box, or alternatively be considered an increase in maximum HP and thus remain at 100%, but with the absolute HP value adjusted accordingly (I imagine the latter is the preferable, if possible). I believe this is also how it works when temporary HP increasing abilities are used, such as feral druids Survival Instincts?
Any thoughts if this is possible currently? I would ticket it as a feature request, but first I'd like to know if such coding (I'm quite at a loss when it comes to any coding) would be possible, and subsequently I'd bring it up with other priests and healers to see if there's general support for such a feature. There are also a few potential cons to the feature even if implemented properly (that I can think of), but I'll refrain from going into a discussion of that for now.
Thanks for an absolutely amazing addon concept, btw :) I couldn't imagine healing without Grid any more.
So shields should not be incorporated into health. The underlying health needs to be cured regardless. There are really just two health sizes: tanks & everyone else. Adjusting the max would just make it so you have no idea how to relate a deficit size to the heal size required to fix it for a particular character.
Some kind of bar indicator would be better I think. Or a color coded square based on shield size etc.
Another approach is to have shields show up like heals do at the moment. So if your heals show up as green or lighter colored on top of the health deficit, then perhaps shields can similarly show as an additional layer on top of both the heals and health bars.
As you say this does all depend on Blizzard providing the data needed though.
And yes, Pastamancer & Maia did a brilliant thing conceiving and implementing Grid.
Even if you could get 100% accurate values for absorption effects, I think this would be very misleading. Survival Instincts actually increases the amount of health a bear has; it does not reduce the amount of damage taken from incoming attacks. Power Word: Shield does not actually increase the amount of health the target has; it does reduce the amount of damage taken from incoming attacks (by 100%).
Shields do not increase a player's health, or affect the player's health in any other way. Rather, they are more like Shield Wall, Barkskin, or other effects that reduce incoming damage, even though they reduce that damage by 100%. These are two different mechanics, just as healing and absorption are two different mechanics. By trying to make them all the same mechanic, you really lose out on some of the fine nuances that a good healer can use to make better healing decisions.
While I'd generally agree that if all other things are equal (eg. neither target is actively taking damage) then healing someone at 25% health without a shield is a higher priority than healing someone at 25% health with a shield, the fact remains that both players are missing 75% of their health and will need to be healed no matter how many shields they receive.
Another concern would be that many healers, myself included, look at the changes in a unit's health bar to determine whether the unit is actively taking damage. Changing the health bar value every time a unit gained or lost a shield would actually reduce the amount of information available.
You're welcome to write a plugin to add the functionality you're describing, or find someone to write one, but it's not something that is likely to be added to the Grid core.
I didn't as such see shields incorporated into health points as a feature disc priests themselves need, as I think most of us have a pretty good idea about the strength of our shields on different targets (there are grid plugins available for corner indicators for just this, which works pretty well).
As I believe what you say Phanx, about most healers estimating incoming damage on a target by their fluctuations in HP, is true, then the typical good healer will likely choose to heal the correct target (i.e. the one without a shield whose health keeps dropping). If he is or isn't aware that the reason the other players health isn't dropping is because of a shield, is actually irrelevant.
Think I'll archive this idea along with so many similar in the trashbin :-)
Keep up the good work, and thanks for your feedback on my ramblings.
No, keep it in mind. As soon as Blizzard fixes the log to show shield based heals properly it can be implemented in some form.
That has a Text Indicator on the amount absorbed. I use it on the Text3Indikator. So i see
1/3 Health bar
T1: Name
T2: -20k Health
T3: 6k Shield left.
Maybe this works for you. Where it is only accurate on yourself or somebody using (the same, similar, ...) addon, as it has to know about your spellpower, talents to properly calculate the shield. E.g. it will calculate 6k with all information - if this information is lacking (as combat log doesn´t tell) it will choose the smallest amount possible - something around 1.5k - even if the actual shield has a higher potential.
I've been experimenting with Vuhdo because of the rave reviews, and I must say that these HoT bars are the only thing that I really love, that Grid cannot already do.
I understand that it may be possible to do something like this with GridControlPipes, but afaik that only works for one hot. On Vuhdo you can add up to 3 "bars" separate from ManaBars for different hots.
Anyway, you can find a mostly-complete list of Grid plugins here:
http://www.wowace.com/addons/grid/pages/list-of-grid-plugins/
Also, have you tried one of the plugins that adds additional icon indicators with support for showing durations via "cooldown spirals"? It seems like having three small icons along the bottom of the frame, for instance, would take up less space than three full timer bars.
ETA: i dont want to make it sound like i'm comparing grid to vuhdo and it falls short.. it doesn't. If it did I would just use vuhdo. I like Grid and have been using it for years, but i did want to ask about a few features that i've noticed while trialing Vuhdo.
I do use the icon type stuff, but generally stick to indicators because icons are usually too small for me to distinguish when I have several different types of hots, and same iwth cooldown spirals/numbers. The indicators changing color is fine, but the hot bars are kind of nifty in Vuhdo as a visual cue for hot duration.
It uses the threat API. Since players don't have threat tables, nothing will show up in PvP. If you want a "this player is the target of something hostile" style aggro status (which is what Grid had before the threat API was added, and is probably what VuhDo is using), grab GridStatusBanzai.
Anyways...im trying to make grid be transparent when people is at full health, sadly i tried everything i know about Grid...but i cannot make it look like these at all:
http://img210.imageshack.us/i/bice.jpg/
Regards.
Yes. I think he wants to replicate it in grid.
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Curse PremiumJust in case I'm blind is there a way to add specific debuffs to a blacklist?
(unstable affliction type)
I have the border showing generic debuffs my class can remove (like curse, disease etc)
but would like to blacklist specific debuffs from "lighting up" the category.
Is this possible?
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Curse PremiumAbsolutely. Just add a new aura status for the debuff in question, and don't assign it to an indicator.