[...]your UI design is a failure of epic proportions. [...]
You have stated your point a lot of times. And that quote was below the belly.
You have to admit that Grid is a complex Unit frame condensing a lot of information in a small space.
While you the Zealot for the Minimalism have your play-style, the style of others may differ and hopefully you know that - sometimes it feels you forget that.
Azethoth is addressing that Grid(1) was missing class defaults and only had a generic default. Furthermore it was not easy for new users to get started with Grid. There are a lot of Tutorials out there to make people familiar with it.
As long as the base is modular and the configuration is split of - a new configuration can be implemented if you fears come true. But Azethoth has his plans not fully shown and lets see where things go first. It will be an interative process and it's not even in beta.
While you (Phanx) the Zealot for the Minimalism have your play-style, the style of others may differ and hopefully you know that - sometimes it feels you forget that.
Azethoth is addressing that Grid(1) was missing class defaults and only had a generic default. Furthermore it was not easy for new users to get started with Grid. There are a lot of Tutorials out there to make people familiar with it.
As long as the base is modular and the configuration is split of - a new configuration can be implemented if you fears come true. But Azethoth has his plans not fully shown and lets see where things go first. It will be an interative process and it's not even in beta.
What is interesting to me is that we are giving up one aspect of this mods linage in the sense that it has been a beacon of minimalism in my mind at least.
I think this is why Phanx finds it so hard to see it going the way of so many other addons that try to be everything to everyone out the box and just suck (I AM NOT SAYING IT CURRENTLY SUCKS).
Grid has always at least to me been one of the few addons out there that stuck to being a HIGHLY configurable addon yet still being able to wrap it all together into a neat little package which you cant find anywhere else.
I for one will turn off almost 95% of all the things Phanx and Azethoth both want on, as a raiding priest I don't really need much, for example.
Renew thing
PW:S thing
Weak Soul thing
PoM thing
2 Text spots
2 Debuff corners
Mainly I think the base defaults should be nothing totally BLANK you should have an empty box that is small. Of course you should explain this in the description of the addon and all that you have a default that is blank for advanced / adventurous users and then you have a Azethoth profile that adds all your stuff that you have been saying you want so that these users that need everything for them already done and waiting can just jump to that and go. I dunno w/e you are doing the coding boss man.
What is interesting to me is that we are giving up one aspect of this mods linage in the sense that it has been a beacon of minimalism in my mind at least...
I am curious what you mean by this, so let me ask you the following questions.
The actual Grid2 Core (the part that actually makes it work as a raid frame) is even more stripped down than Grid was. You can not only have it be as minimal as it was before, but the actual code is more minimal. So I assume you are not talking about the core right?
The config has two parts to it. One is where it mostly replicates the functionality of the Grid config. Let's call this the "basics". This part is also more minimal than before:
*The following indicators will always be there as they were in Grid: border, health, health-color, heals-heals-color. Not so for the 4 square corner indicators, the text indicators and the icon indicator. If they are used they show up, if they are not used they will not show up. Depending on class / spec this could mean 0-4 square ones etc.
*Only valid statuses are listed for each indicator instead of all of the statuses.
Are you are ok with this part? (It really will not be much different than in Grid.)
The 2nd part of the config is to support the new things in Grid2. Creating a new icon / square / text indicator. Supporting class / spec defaults. Quick switching between defaults if there are multiple ones. Providing a GUI for moving / placing / creating indicators. All of this is layered on top of the "basics". You will not be forced to use any of it. However it could let you for example choose between a blank slate config (as you mentioned), a minimal config, and probably a more verbose config. Its purpose is to make Grid2 more usable to more people right out of the box.
Is this the part you do not like? If so, can you explain why not?
I'm actually with Phanx on this. For each class/spec (all 30 of them) figure out what the "average" person wants to see. For example, find out what the average Holy Priest wants to see. Build that setup, and use it as the Holy Priest default.
However, there shouldn't be "Holy Priest Empty", "Holy Priest Lite", and "Holy Priest OMGWTFBBQ!!111". Just "Holy Priest". Otherwise, you're adding, not subtracting, a level of configuration complexity to what is historically a very complex addon to configure.
If you're trying to make it user friendly, each class/spec combo should have one default preset. Just one. Make it easy for them to add or remove statuses/indicators.
The idea of "Lite", "Medium", and "Jumbo" presets may sound really cool as a design concept, and I've written programs that use something similar, but as a user (and as "The Grid Guy" for my guild, helping all the resto druids, resto shammies, holy pallies, and disc/holy priests set up THEIR Grids) PLEASE do not go that route. It would just be a configuration pain for the end-user and the end-user's friendly addon guru.
Now to go on and tell you what I use in my Holy Priest's Grid setup.
1) Aggro
2) Magic Debuff / Disease (hidden if Abolish is on the unit) (blue / brown color diff.)
3) Prayer of Mending (different colors for mine and other, as I raid with 2 disc priests)
4) Renew
5) Weakened Soul
6) Low Mana (25% threshold)
That's it, as a raiding holy priest who is a guild officer/raid leader.
When I go Shadow, I use even less indicators. :)
1) Aggro
2) Magic Debuff / Disease (hidden if Abolish) (color differentiates)
3) Weakened Soul
4) Low Mana (25% Threshold)
I am curious what you mean by this, so let me ask you the following questions.
The actual Grid2 Core (the part that actually makes it work as a raid frame) is even more stripped down than Grid was. You can not only have it be as minimal as it was before, but the actual code is more minimal. So I assume you are not talking about the core right?
Oh yeah grid2 is super stripped down I understand this I am talking totally about the Default Config that is included now.
The config has two parts to it. One is where it mostly replicates the functionality of the Grid config. Let's call this the "basics". This part is also more minimal than before:
*The following indicators will always be there as they were in Grid: border, health, health-color, heals-heals-color. Not so for the 4 square corner indicators, the text indicators and the icon indicator. If they are used they show up, if they are not used they will not show up. Depending on class / spec this could mean 0-4 square ones etc.
*Only valid statuses are listed for each indicator instead of all of the statuses.
Are you are ok with this part? (It really will not be much different than in Grid.)
Yeah what I was saying is that it seems like its more crowded now then it was in Grid1, maybe its just been a really long time sense I used Grid1 but yeah lol.
The 2nd part of the config is to support the new things in Grid2. Creating a new icon / square / text indicator. Supporting class / spec defaults. Quick switching between defaults if there are multiple ones. Providing a GUI for moving / placing / creating indicators. All of this is layered on top of the "basics". You will not be forced to use any of it. However it could let you for example choose between a blank slate config (as you mentioned), a minimal config, and probably a more verbose config. Its purpose is to make Grid2 more usable to more people right out of the box.
Is this the part you do not like? If so, can you explain why not?
Ok ok this is what I was trying to say, I personally would rather an empty config be included as it is not currently, I can understand why you would want to have class profiles for all the entry level users but some of us would rather setup only the minimum indicators and status thingies. For example your "basics" include heal colors and the sort, I hide heal colors and opt for text indications on heals but thats just me. I guess what I am trying to say is I would rather not have to disable stuff but rather turn things on. But yeah empty/minimal/all things would sound good to me.
...personally would rather an empty config be included...I would rather not have to disable stuff but rather turn things on. But yeah empty/minimal/all things would sound good to me.
All right I think I understand your issue. While a blank slate will not be the default when you first run Grid2, getting to it will be very simple. There will most likely be a single popup to click on and instantly get a blank slate or "empty" config.
I for one will turn off almost 95% of all the things Phanx and Azethoth both want on, as a raiding priest I don't really need much, for example...[only 8 indicators]
Interesting, this seems even more minimal than what I consider minimal. Could you post what you assign these to? So border, squares, icons etc? It may make it worthwhile to make some of the unique indicators deletable same as icon / text / square.
...there shouldn't be "Holy Priest Empty", "Holy Priest Lite", and "Holy Priest OMGWTFBBQ!!111". Just "Holy Priest". Otherwise, you're adding, not subtracting, a level of configuration complexity to what is historically a very complex addon to configure...
I just do not understand this line of reasoning. As a user, lets say you get as a default "priest-holy". So there is a popup somewhere with that selected. You can also use that popup to choose "empty" or "priest-holy-complete" or "priest-holy-OMGWTFBBQ!!111". Or whatever other Holy Priest config you downloaded a config plugin for.
How on earth is that complicated? I mean, I understand that this is a setting that was not in Grid and that it is thus "one thing in addition to the basics". But how does it complicate your life as the Grid guru? Surely you would just tell them to choose whatever setting it is that you like and then modify it if necessary.
Having a simple one-click way to select a config that just works is simpler than it used to be. Not more complicated.
...
If you're trying to make it user friendly, each class/spec combo should have one default preset. Just one. Make it easy for them to add or remove statuses/indicators...
I just do not see the difference between one single preset and multiple ones except that there are more items in a popup. Restricting to just one is exactly what Grid already has (ie no popup). This requires no work and is already scheduled to be implemented except that in Grid2 it will be spec specific which is one step beyond the class specific defaults in Grid.
I should also make clear the following: just because I use examples with 3 presets does not mean a particular class/spec would have that many. It is quite possible to have just "empty" and the default.
Azathoth, just because you as an addon designer don't believe something to be complicated, doesn't mean Joe Schmoe Addon User won't. Nobody actually IN this conversation is a Joe Schmoe. We have trouble thinking like he does. When it comes down to it, hiding as much from config from THAT guy as possible is a Good Thing. A 1-3 presets per spec idea is okay for him - as long as he doesn't have access to the full config as well.
Where you start to confuse Joe Schmoe is when you drop him into something with a million checkboxes and buttons. I think you'd also annoy a lot of the power users. Heck, personally, I'd grumble about having to click a popup before I got into the meat of the config. If you give Joe Schmoe easy presets before-hand and THEN drop him into a full config mode, he gets confused about what the heck he's doing.
-----
Time for a segue. The final statement in my first paragraph brought a thought to my mind. Multiple config methods. Method 1, the Joe Schmoe "I Haz Addonz!" version, is the version you're championing - multiple presets per spec. Method 2 would be the full normal config. Activating Method 2 would be either by the existance of an optional addon for config (not a good method, but workable, I think), OR by ticking an "Advanced Configuration" checkbox in the base config.
Base Config would have information for scale, textures, colors, fonts, height/width, alpha, borders, etc - just not setup of indicators and statuses. There would also be the standard "Enabled" checkbox, an "Advanced Config" box, and a button for "Select your Preset" or something of that nature.
The Advanced Config would be complete and transparent configuration of statuses and indicators, just like what you have now. This would allow both Joe Schmoe and Addon Poweruser to use the configuration method that best suits them. :)
I know, I know, you've already written the config UI. I was just tossing out a concept that would, hopefully, allow both the "Multiple Presets" and "Complete Config" concepts to fit together without unduly annoying either set of users.
I think that the best default setup is one that requires minimal changes to be playable right out of the box. Ideally the average user would just install the addon, check out what each indicator means, add/remove maybe 1 or 2 and be done. The more layers of configuration you add to that and the harder you make it for him.
Also there is something important about what makes Grid so good that I feel you are missing. What is really great about it is not the amount of information and indicators that you can display, but how many you can take out and the level of filtering that you can do. 90% of buffs/debuffs are something that you don't need to see in combat, but the 10% that you do need to see stand out a lot more and are immediately obvious if everything else is filtered out.
Here's an example configuration I would use with my priest:
1 corner: weakened soul + power word shield (with higher priority)
2 corner: MY renew
3 corner: healing reduced (mortal strike, wound poison, aimed shot, etc)
4 corner: missing buffs that I can cast (only shown out of combat)
center icon: magic debuff + disease (with icon border indicating the type)
text 1: name
text 2: missing health + incoming heals
border: important raid debuffs that need immediate attention (like KT frost blast)
With my warlock I would use:
1 corner: soulstone
center icon: magic debuffs (that I can dispel with my felhunter)
text 1: name
border: important raid debuffs
For the center icon I usually make specific statuses for important magic effects and give them higher priority so that they are always shown first. Unstable Affliction, Mark of Blood, any crowd control spells.
The Advanced Config would be complete and transparent configuration of statuses and indicators, just like what you have now. This would allow both Joe Schmoe and Addon Poweruser to use the configuration method that best suits them. :)
I know, I know, you've already written the config UI. I was just tossing out a concept that would, hopefully, allow both the "Multiple Presets" and "Complete Config" concepts to fit together without unduly annoying either set of users.
This I could totally live with.
It does sound like a good compromise.
:)
ps. (I'll get this wrong)
WASH: This is gonna get pretty interesting.
MAL: Define interesting.
WASH: “Oh god oh god, we’re all gonna die”?
...Multiple config methods. Method 1, ... - multiple presets per spec. Method 2 would be the full normal config...
...
Having a simple config mode and an advanced config mode was mentioned earlier in the thread and is a good idea.
To implement it I think you are saying the simple mode should only let you choose presets, not mess around with anything else. So probably class/spec presets, and layout presets (size, scale, padding, backgrounds, etc.) Perhaps an "Advanced" button next to each of those would enable their set of advanced configs and toggle with a button to get back to a simpler config.
Almost the same can be accomplished by having the landing page in the config show you the preset choices without hiding the more detailed config sections. This avoids the simple/advanced switchery which frankly I am never fond of in a UI.
Alternatively various items can be labelled as "Quick Setup" in the UI. This lets them coexist amongst all the other options, and probably as the top item(s) in each config panel. Or if you think about the hierarchy this is all presented in, they would be towards or at the top of it. This can be done in addition to the other things as well.
Whichever way, I want to defer decisions on how to implement this till much later. I do not like writing code or creating UI for things I do not have actual usage feedback on as being an issue.
...a concept that would, hopefully, allow both the "Multiple Presets" and "Complete Config" concepts to fit together without unduly annoying either set of users.
I am not sure what you mean. A simple mode shields you from the advanced config. The reverse would not be true though. Presets are there to save both groups time and effort, they would not be hidden from advanced users.
In that case, just count me as a vote in favor of the "simple" and "advanced" config idea - anything that lets me ignore the presets, yet also allows Joe Schmoe to get to presets easily and not be bothered by the advanced config. :)
PS:
MoonWitch!
Mal: This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then - explode.
Jayne: Are we going to explode? I don't want to explode.
Mal: "I don't believe there's a power in the 'verse that can stop Kaylee from being cheerful." "Sometimes you just wanna duct tape her mouth and dump her in the hold for a month."
River: "The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems."
Mal: (to Simon) "See, morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with, long as she does it quiet-like."
...What is really great ... is ... how many [indicators] you can take out and the level of filtering that you can do. 90% of buffs/debuffs are something that you don't need to see in combat, but the 10% that you do need to see stand out a lot more and are immediately obvious if everything else is filtered out...
Agreed. Class filtering has been added to the latest alpha. Requires SV reset.
Speaking of which, Matrix110 in irc had an interesting idea: filter by hp to identify tanks. For example right now in a raid anything over 30k hp is pretty much a tank. The magic value would adjust with gear progression.
This avoids having to sniff specs or check mt targets etc from other mods and lets you have different behavior for tank vs non-tank.
I can not think of a good way to check other roles but determining the tanks is pretty much the only thing I have wished for in Grid. Highlighting them will stop me from hotting up our ret pally who is also in the tank group for example.
I checked in some modifications to Priest defaults. Requires SV reset.
Summarizing the healing priest layouts posted here I get the following:
<moved to more recent post>
Questions:
*Should any of the optional stuff be moved?
*I removed the incurable debuffs from defaults for druids and priests. Should I do the same for the other classes?
*Keep resurrection stuff on text2? (always for druids, ooc for others). Should this be added to the common section?
*Are the indicator assignments ok?
*Should any of these be duplicated to multiple indicators?
*I added target and healing-prevented to the common section, neither of which was mentioned by posters. Is that ok? (healing-prevented is not available yet)
Personally, I'd like to see the "healing-reduced" moved to common for all healers - it's something every direct healer really really wants to know. There's so many debuffs that cause it, that I never added it to my own Grid (yes, I was being lazy :)), but it's really good info to know.
For now I am just editing the post in place. If healing-prevented / healing-reduced is agreed to be common it should probably be in the standard Grid2 package as well.
Also what indicators should those be attached to? Personally I have healing-prevented attached to border as it is slightly different from the other items in alpha which are really casting-prevented (or something). That is you can still remove debuffs even if you cannot heal.
Maybe both healing-prevented and healing-reduced should be on bar-health-color?
Also what indicators should those be attached to? Personally I have healing-prevented attached to border as it is slightly different from the other items in alpha which are really casting-prevented (or something). That is you can still remove debuffs even if you cannot heal.
I solve this issue (in Grid) by using 75% alpha for healing prevented, but 50% alpha for out of range, dead, etc. As a healer, both affect me in similar ways, and the lower alpha is a consistent reminder that I can't cast heals on that person right now, but as you mention, it's still important to see dispellable debuffs, so I don't want the frame to fade out as much.
Healing reduced I just use a corner indicator for since it's not as important, but if you don't use the border for dispellable debuffs that would be fine as a default setting as well.
...Healing reduced I just use a corner indicator for since it's not as important, but if you don't use the border for dispellable debuffs that would be fine as a default setting as well.
Mmm, at this point all 4 corners are already "used". Since buff-PrayerOfMending is only on one target it can share the indicator with healing-reduced sort of. That still leaves one obscuring the other at times though. Maybe it is ok to obscure buff-PrayerOfMending? Do people use Grid to track it or some other mod?
Border is in the same situation. healing-reduced can take priority over low-mana. But target would need to be top and thus could obscure it for the very target you need to know about (selected tank). Not an issue if you use clique etc.
I am also open to either side-left or side-right (neither currently used) being added for this.
The latest alpha has some in progress code for healing-prevented and healing-reduced. I extended StatusAuraGroup to handle groups of debuffs as well and made them groups based on GridStatusHealingReduced but lumping all debuffs into single tables. I did some tests on the performance of a 35 item table vs a 10 item table and there was no real difference (35 was slightly faster by 0.001s when testing reached 200,000 table accesses, identical times at 20,000 accesses). I am assuming that means more collisions for the 10 case or something. The test code is in Grid2StatusAuraGroup but commented out if anyone wants to play with it.
You have stated your point a lot of times. And that quote was below the belly.
You have to admit that Grid is a complex Unit frame condensing a lot of information in a small space.
While you the Zealot for the Minimalism have your play-style, the style of others may differ and hopefully you know that - sometimes it feels you forget that.
Azethoth is addressing that Grid(1) was missing class defaults and only had a generic default. Furthermore it was not easy for new users to get started with Grid. There are a lot of Tutorials out there to make people familiar with it.
As long as the base is modular and the configuration is split of - a new configuration can be implemented if you fears come true. But Azethoth has his plans not fully shown and lets see where things go first. It will be an interative process and it's not even in beta.
Wow you got it totally correct you sir win.
What is interesting to me is that we are giving up one aspect of this mods linage in the sense that it has been a beacon of minimalism in my mind at least.
I think this is why Phanx finds it so hard to see it going the way of so many other addons that try to be everything to everyone out the box and just suck (I AM NOT SAYING IT CURRENTLY SUCKS).
Grid has always at least to me been one of the few addons out there that stuck to being a HIGHLY configurable addon yet still being able to wrap it all together into a neat little package which you cant find anywhere else.
I for one will turn off almost 95% of all the things Phanx and Azethoth both want on, as a raiding priest I don't really need much, for example.
- Renew thing
- PW:S thing
- Weak Soul thing
- PoM thing
- 2 Text spots
- 2 Debuff corners
Mainly I think the base defaults should be nothing totally BLANK you should have an empty box that is small. Of course you should explain this in the description of the addon and all that you have a default that is blank for advanced / adventurous users and then you have a Azethoth profile that adds all your stuff that you have been saying you want so that these users that need everything for them already done and waiting can just jump to that and go. I dunno w/e you are doing the coding boss man.I am curious what you mean by this, so let me ask you the following questions.
The actual Grid2 Core (the part that actually makes it work as a raid frame) is even more stripped down than Grid was. You can not only have it be as minimal as it was before, but the actual code is more minimal. So I assume you are not talking about the core right?
The config has two parts to it. One is where it mostly replicates the functionality of the Grid config. Let's call this the "basics". This part is also more minimal than before:
*The following indicators will always be there as they were in Grid: border, health, health-color, heals-heals-color. Not so for the 4 square corner indicators, the text indicators and the icon indicator. If they are used they show up, if they are not used they will not show up. Depending on class / spec this could mean 0-4 square ones etc.
*Only valid statuses are listed for each indicator instead of all of the statuses.
Are you are ok with this part? (It really will not be much different than in Grid.)
The 2nd part of the config is to support the new things in Grid2. Creating a new icon / square / text indicator. Supporting class / spec defaults. Quick switching between defaults if there are multiple ones. Providing a GUI for moving / placing / creating indicators. All of this is layered on top of the "basics". You will not be forced to use any of it. However it could let you for example choose between a blank slate config (as you mentioned), a minimal config, and probably a more verbose config. Its purpose is to make Grid2 more usable to more people right out of the box.
Is this the part you do not like? If so, can you explain why not?
However, there shouldn't be "Holy Priest Empty", "Holy Priest Lite", and "Holy Priest OMGWTFBBQ!!111". Just "Holy Priest". Otherwise, you're adding, not subtracting, a level of configuration complexity to what is historically a very complex addon to configure.
If you're trying to make it user friendly, each class/spec combo should have one default preset. Just one. Make it easy for them to add or remove statuses/indicators.
The idea of "Lite", "Medium", and "Jumbo" presets may sound really cool as a design concept, and I've written programs that use something similar, but as a user (and as "The Grid Guy" for my guild, helping all the resto druids, resto shammies, holy pallies, and disc/holy priests set up THEIR Grids) PLEASE do not go that route. It would just be a configuration pain for the end-user and the end-user's friendly addon guru.
Now to go on and tell you what I use in my Holy Priest's Grid setup.
1) Aggro
2) Magic Debuff / Disease (hidden if Abolish is on the unit) (blue / brown color diff.)
3) Prayer of Mending (different colors for mine and other, as I raid with 2 disc priests)
4) Renew
5) Weakened Soul
6) Low Mana (25% threshold)
That's it, as a raiding holy priest who is a guild officer/raid leader.
When I go Shadow, I use even less indicators. :)
1) Aggro
2) Magic Debuff / Disease (hidden if Abolish) (color differentiates)
3) Weakened Soul
4) Low Mana (25% Threshold)
Oh yeah grid2 is super stripped down I understand this I am talking totally about the Default Config that is included now.
Yeah what I was saying is that it seems like its more crowded now then it was in Grid1, maybe its just been a really long time sense I used Grid1 but yeah lol.
Ok ok this is what I was trying to say, I personally would rather an empty config be included as it is not currently, I can understand why you would want to have class profiles for all the entry level users but some of us would rather setup only the minimum indicators and status thingies. For example your "basics" include heal colors and the sort, I hide heal colors and opt for text indications on heals but thats just me. I guess what I am trying to say is I would rather not have to disable stuff but rather turn things on. But yeah empty/minimal/all things would sound good to me.
All right I think I understand your issue. While a blank slate will not be the default when you first run Grid2, getting to it will be very simple. There will most likely be a single popup to click on and instantly get a blank slate or "empty" config.
Interesting, this seems even more minimal than what I consider minimal. Could you post what you assign these to? So border, squares, icons etc? It may make it worthwhile to make some of the unique indicators deletable same as icon / text / square.
I just do not understand this line of reasoning. As a user, lets say you get as a default "priest-holy". So there is a popup somewhere with that selected. You can also use that popup to choose "empty" or "priest-holy-complete" or "priest-holy-OMGWTFBBQ!!111". Or whatever other Holy Priest config you downloaded a config plugin for.
How on earth is that complicated? I mean, I understand that this is a setting that was not in Grid and that it is thus "one thing in addition to the basics". But how does it complicate your life as the Grid guru? Surely you would just tell them to choose whatever setting it is that you like and then modify it if necessary.
Having a simple one-click way to select a config that just works is simpler than it used to be. Not more complicated.
I just do not see the difference between one single preset and multiple ones except that there are more items in a popup. Restricting to just one is exactly what Grid already has (ie no popup). This requires no work and is already scheduled to be implemented except that in Grid2 it will be spec specific which is one step beyond the class specific defaults in Grid.
I should also make clear the following: just because I use examples with 3 presets does not mean a particular class/spec would have that many. It is quite possible to have just "empty" and the default.
This part you can go check out for yourself right now. It's not finished or even polished but seems quite usable to me already.
Where you start to confuse Joe Schmoe is when you drop him into something with a million checkboxes and buttons. I think you'd also annoy a lot of the power users. Heck, personally, I'd grumble about having to click a popup before I got into the meat of the config. If you give Joe Schmoe easy presets before-hand and THEN drop him into a full config mode, he gets confused about what the heck he's doing.
-----
Time for a segue. The final statement in my first paragraph brought a thought to my mind. Multiple config methods. Method 1, the Joe Schmoe "I Haz Addonz!" version, is the version you're championing - multiple presets per spec. Method 2 would be the full normal config. Activating Method 2 would be either by the existance of an optional addon for config (not a good method, but workable, I think), OR by ticking an "Advanced Configuration" checkbox in the base config.
Base Config would have information for scale, textures, colors, fonts, height/width, alpha, borders, etc - just not setup of indicators and statuses. There would also be the standard "Enabled" checkbox, an "Advanced Config" box, and a button for "Select your Preset" or something of that nature.
The Advanced Config would be complete and transparent configuration of statuses and indicators, just like what you have now. This would allow both Joe Schmoe and Addon Poweruser to use the configuration method that best suits them. :)
I know, I know, you've already written the config UI. I was just tossing out a concept that would, hopefully, allow both the "Multiple Presets" and "Complete Config" concepts to fit together without unduly annoying either set of users.
Also there is something important about what makes Grid so good that I feel you are missing. What is really great about it is not the amount of information and indicators that you can display, but how many you can take out and the level of filtering that you can do. 90% of buffs/debuffs are something that you don't need to see in combat, but the 10% that you do need to see stand out a lot more and are immediately obvious if everything else is filtered out.
Here's an example configuration I would use with my priest:
1 corner: weakened soul + power word shield (with higher priority)
2 corner: MY renew
3 corner: healing reduced (mortal strike, wound poison, aimed shot, etc)
4 corner: missing buffs that I can cast (only shown out of combat)
center icon: magic debuff + disease (with icon border indicating the type)
text 1: name
text 2: missing health + incoming heals
border: important raid debuffs that need immediate attention (like KT frost blast)
With my warlock I would use:
1 corner: soulstone
center icon: magic debuffs (that I can dispel with my felhunter)
text 1: name
border: important raid debuffs
For the center icon I usually make specific statuses for important magic effects and give them higher priority so that they are always shown first. Unstable Affliction, Mark of Blood, any crowd control spells.
This I could totally live with.
It does sound like a good compromise.
:)
ps. (I'll get this wrong)
WASH: This is gonna get pretty interesting.
MAL: Define interesting.
WASH: “Oh god oh god, we’re all gonna die”?
Having a simple config mode and an advanced config mode was mentioned earlier in the thread and is a good idea.
To implement it I think you are saying the simple mode should only let you choose presets, not mess around with anything else. So probably class/spec presets, and layout presets (size, scale, padding, backgrounds, etc.) Perhaps an "Advanced" button next to each of those would enable their set of advanced configs and toggle with a button to get back to a simpler config.
Almost the same can be accomplished by having the landing page in the config show you the preset choices without hiding the more detailed config sections. This avoids the simple/advanced switchery which frankly I am never fond of in a UI.
Alternatively various items can be labelled as "Quick Setup" in the UI. This lets them coexist amongst all the other options, and probably as the top item(s) in each config panel. Or if you think about the hierarchy this is all presented in, they would be towards or at the top of it. This can be done in addition to the other things as well.
Whichever way, I want to defer decisions on how to implement this till much later. I do not like writing code or creating UI for things I do not have actual usage feedback on as being an issue.
Actually I have barely started writing it. There are lots of ui / decisions / experiments still to be done.
I am not sure what you mean. A simple mode shields you from the advanced config. The reverse would not be true though. Presets are there to save both groups time and effort, they would not be hidden from advanced users.
PS:
MoonWitch!
Mal: This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then - explode.
Jayne: Are we going to explode? I don't want to explode.
River: "The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds given adequate vacuuming systems."
Mal: (to Simon) "See, morbid and creepifying, I got no problem with, long as she does it quiet-like."
Mal: Just means you ain't dead.
Ah Cowboys and Crooks in Space, we barely knew ye.
Agreed. Class filtering has been added to the latest alpha. Requires SV reset.
Speaking of which, Matrix110 in irc had an interesting idea: filter by hp to identify tanks. For example right now in a raid anything over 30k hp is pretty much a tank. The magic value would adjust with gear progression.
This avoids having to sniff specs or check mt targets etc from other mods and lets you have different behavior for tank vs non-tank.
I can not think of a good way to check other roles but determining the tanks is pretty much the only thing I have wished for in Grid. Highlighting them will stop me from hotting up our ret pally who is also in the tank group for example.
Summarizing the healing priest layouts posted here I get the following:
<moved to more recent post>
Questions:
*Should any of the optional stuff be moved?
*I removed the incurable debuffs from defaults for druids and priests. Should I do the same for the other classes?
*Keep resurrection stuff on text2? (always for druids, ooc for others). Should this be added to the common section?
*Are the indicator assignments ok?
*Should any of these be duplicated to multiple indicators?
*I added target and healing-prevented to the common section, neither of which was mentioned by posters. Is that ok? (healing-prevented is not available yet)
Other then that, the priest part looks quite good
Also what indicators should those be attached to? Personally I have healing-prevented attached to border as it is slightly different from the other items in alpha which are really casting-prevented (or something). That is you can still remove debuffs even if you cannot heal.
Maybe both healing-prevented and healing-reduced should be on bar-health-color?
I solve this issue (in Grid) by using 75% alpha for healing prevented, but 50% alpha for out of range, dead, etc. As a healer, both affect me in similar ways, and the lower alpha is a consistent reminder that I can't cast heals on that person right now, but as you mention, it's still important to see dispellable debuffs, so I don't want the frame to fade out as much.
Healing reduced I just use a corner indicator for since it's not as important, but if you don't use the border for dispellable debuffs that would be fine as a default setting as well.
I like that. Let's go with 75% for healing-prevented on alpha.
Mmm, at this point all 4 corners are already "used". Since buff-PrayerOfMending is only on one target it can share the indicator with healing-reduced sort of. That still leaves one obscuring the other at times though. Maybe it is ok to obscure buff-PrayerOfMending? Do people use Grid to track it or some other mod?
Border is in the same situation. healing-reduced can take priority over low-mana. But target would need to be top and thus could obscure it for the very target you need to know about (selected tank). Not an issue if you use clique etc.
I am also open to either side-left or side-right (neither currently used) being added for this.
The latest alpha has some in progress code for healing-prevented and healing-reduced. I extended StatusAuraGroup to handle groups of debuffs as well and made them groups based on GridStatusHealingReduced but lumping all debuffs into single tables. I did some tests on the performance of a 35 item table vs a 10 item table and there was no real difference (35 was slightly faster by 0.001s when testing reached 200,000 table accesses, identical times at 20,000 accesses). I am assuming that means more collisions for the 10 case or something. The test code is in Grid2StatusAuraGroup but commented out if anyone wants to play with it.