Look, all you need to know about Tekkub is that he has "push button to receive bacon" technology. Everyone loves bacon so by association everyone loves Tekkub. Therefore imaginationland is real.
When proposing default settings, rank them in order of importance. Once everyone agrees that there's nothing missing from the list and mostly agree on the order, then you can argue where to draw the line (or multiple lines).
I personally feel that Grid shouldn't be showing your self buffs, or any buff that lasts for more than 10 minutes. There's plenty of addons that are very good at tracking buffs, let them be good at that. Let Grid be good at letting you know who needs your attention in-combat first.
When proposing default settings, rank them in order of importance. Once everyone agrees that there's nothing missing from the list and mostly agree on the order, then you can argue where to draw the line (or multiple lines).
I personally feel that Grid shouldn't be showing your self buffs, or any buff that lasts for more than 10 minutes. There's plenty of addons that are very good at tracking buffs, let them be good at that. Let Grid be good at letting you know who needs your attention in-combat first.
I love you!
So, do we have a wiki page? Or shall I create one?
Out of range, in a vehicle, offline, etc (cannot be targetted, healed, etc)
Dead or ghost (can be resurrected)
Charmed (can't be healed, should be CCed/avoided)
Health
Selected raid debuffs (I disable 90% of what's in GridStatusRaidDebuff)
Dispellable debuffs
Curses
Poisons
Magic
Diseases
Aggro
Incoming direct heals *
Active HoTs *
Selected buffs and debuffs that directly affect your play
Druid: Innervate
Hunter: Misdirection
Mage: Focus Magic
Paladin: Beacon of Light, Hands, Forbearance
Priest: Power Word: Shield, Weakened Soul
Shaman: Earth Shield, Riptide
Add other class-specific spells that can only be on one person at a time, that prevent you from casting certain things on someone, or that would cause you to cast something on someone that you might not otherwise cast
Reactive heals and absorption shields
Indication of who you're targetting
Low mana as a binary threshold if your class can do anything to grant mana, or maybe if you are a raid leader wanting to know if you should pause between pulls
Missing buffs you can cast
* Eventually it would be nice to combine these into a single indicator with a "show only if at least X healing incoming over the next Y seconds" threshold, but that won't be possible until LibHealComm supports HoTs. It would also need to account for HoTs active from people who weren't running LibHealComm.
...Selected raid debuffs (I disable 90% of what's in GridStatusRaidDebuff)...
This is a good point. A lot of the buffs are pretty irrelevant and worse meaningless clutter sometimes. I think they can do with splitting into minimal / medium / everything categories to help the disabling process / avoid it to begin with.
...Low mana as a binary threshold if your class can do anything to grant mana, or maybe if you are a raid leader wanting to know if you should pause between pulls...
I am not totally sure what you mean by this. Do you mean multiple thresholds? So for instance Blue below 30% Light Blue below 50%. Or binary as in only on for certain classes?
The list looks good to me as a generic basis for all healers. The only thing I would prioritize higher would be target since it is not optional for me. I use target then cast instead of clique. Also specifically for trees my hots would be split out along with a status for swiftmendable.
...I personally feel that Grid shouldn't be showing your self buffs, or any buff that lasts for more than 10 minutes. There's plenty of addons that are very good at tracking buffs, let them be good at that. Let Grid be good at letting you know who needs your attention in-combat first.
Well I rebuff people in combat now after a rez (massive mana pool and regen + cheap buff inscription). Having this in Grid means I can keep my attention focused on Grid.
That said, this is certainly something optional. The config can make it easy to set up in its entirety for a particular class but does not force anyone to actually use it. So for instance if we go with the category thing the category would set motw/gotw and thorns for a druid with one click instead of having to configure all 3 individually.
I am not totally sure what you mean by this. Do you mean multiple thresholds? So for instance Blue below 30% Light Blue below 50%. Or binary as in only on for certain classes?
The list looks good to me as a generic basis for all healers. The only thing I would prioritize higher would be target since it is not optional for me. I use target then cast instead of clique. Also specifically for trees my hots would be split out along with a status for swiftmendable.
Well, those mana thresholds you mention are ok, but I think Phanx means that she'd like to be able to set a threshold when this indicator becomes visible. eg. Below 40% MP then show that indicator, while some may want it to show up at 50% etc. :)
I would like to add to the default healer setup :
- Set the health deficit to show faster, most healers don't quite care about names as much as they do on missing health :)
This is a good point. A lot of the buffs are pretty irrelevant and worse meaningless clutter sometimes. I think they can do with splitting into minimal / medium / everything categories to help the disabling process / avoid it to begin with.
It's much easier to pick and choose which specific debuffs I want to show if they are all together. Please stop with this "three config presets for everything" stuff. Most people who aren't happy with default settings won't be happy with the other default settings or the other other default settings either. Just make the configuration easy to use directly, and stop making assumptions about what people will or will not want to see and how/where they want to see it. :|
I am not totally sure what you mean by this. Do you mean multiple thresholds? So for instance Blue below 30% Light Blue below 50%. Or binary as in only on for certain classes?
"Binary" as in binary. On or off. Either the status is active or it's not. This is how the "Low Mana" status in Grid(1)already works.
The list looks good to me as a generic basis for all healers. The only thing I would prioritize higher would be target since it is not optional for me. I use target then cast instead of clique.
I thought you didn't believe in a priority system and wanted everything on separate indicators so you could see it all at once? :p
Also specifically for trees my hots would be split out along with a status for swiftmendable.
Wouldn't a "can Swiftmend" status need to be part of the "grouped buffs" plugin, rather than the core, since it should show up if any of several buffs are active on the unit?
The config can make it easy to set up in its entirety for a particular class but does not force anyone to actually use it. So for instance if we go with the category thing the category would set motw/gotw and thorns for a druid with one click instead of having to configure all 3 individually.
I think most people will set up Grid once, and maybe make a few tweaks the first few times they use it, and then rarely touch the configuration again, making all of these presets and categories unnecessary. But, as long as it's also possible to configure all 3 individually without jumping through hoops or installing a plugin, I won't complain too much.
It's much easier to pick and choose which specific debuffs I want to show if they are all together. Please stop with this "three config presets for everything" stuff. Most people who aren't happy with default settings won't be happy with the other default settings or the other other default settings either. Just make the configuration easy to use directly, and stop making assumptions about what people will or will not want to see and how/where they want to see it. :|
...
I think we have some kind of misunderstanding on this topic. I will spell it out in detail so that we can try to talk about and critique the same idea. Lets assume raid debuffs are broken into 2 or 3 sets you can quickly choose from in the setup. Next lets step through how it could work in practice. Note that there are other possible implementations as well, this is just one example.
You have a popup that lets you pick "None", "Critical", "Lots" sets, as well as "Everything". You pick "Critical" and it selects 10% of the debuffs. Things like Kel'Thuzads Frost Blast which need immediate heals or someone dies. It disables 90% of them because they are things you cannot act on or are of no or negligible impact on your behavior. Picking "Lots" gets you lots more. Picking "Everything" chooses everything, "None" deselects everything.
If you decide that you are not happy with the settings, you pick one setting and then add / remove till you get what you want. From the sounds of it you want to be able to select "None" and add what you want.
Later on Blizzard releases a patch and there are for arguments sake 1 new critical debuff and one minor debuff. The critical one goes into the 10% list and is automatically added and activated for people that had chosen the critical list. Both are added to the "Lots" and "Everything" sets and also added and activated. Neither are added for people that chose "None"
As a Grid power user that wants to personally select everything how did this affect you? Well if you really want to do it from scratch then you have to select "Everything" and whittle it down or "Nothing" and add stuff. One selection step is introduced before you do what you used to do, and it is only there if the default choice is not it already.
Ok so there it is, both a potential implementation as well as the cost to you as someone that just wants to directly select everything. Do you still insist on not having choices, or do you see how nice Goldilocks had it when she got to choose amongst the Three Bear's delicious porridge?
I think most people will set up Grid once, and maybe make a few tweaks the first few times they use it, and then rarely touch the configuration again, making all of these presets and categories unnecessary. But, as long as it's also possible to configure all 3 individually without jumping through hoops or installing a plugin, I won't complain too much.
Of course it will be possible to create and configure individual indicators. Right now you can already open Grid2 and do exactly that.
The point of all this layering on top of the basic config is to essentially crowd-source a good config / elements of a good config from people that post here and from our experiences setting up Grid for other people. The impact in all cases is likely to be negligible to you if you insist on configuring Grid2 exactly how you configured Grid. If you do use the easy config options you save yourself a lot of time.
So do you still think presets and categories unnecessary? Do you see no value in them for yourself? That is perfectly fine, you are simply not the target market for them. Do you see no value in them for all Grid2 users? Personally I see value in them and I think some if not most users would agree.
You have a popup that lets you pick "None", "Critical", "Lots" sets, as well as "Everything".
I still think this is unnecessary bloat and overkill, since if it is more difficult to enable or disable a specific setting or two than it is to switch between entire configurations, your UI design is a failure of epic proportions. But as long as these presets are not the only option, I suppose you are free to spend your time coding this instead of fixing the many outstanding bugs in core functionality. :|
Later on Blizzard releases a patch and there are for arguments sake 1 new critical debuff and one minor debuff. The critical one goes into the 10% list and is automatically added and activated for people that had chosen the critical list.
If the only way to avoid having statuses automatically added, removed, or altered by updates is to select the "None" profile, be sure to make it very clear in the UI that all other profiles are subject to automatic modification at the whim of anyone who can commit to the project and tag a release.
Ok so there it is, both a potential implementation as well as the cost to you as someone that just wants to directly select everything. Do you still insist on not having choices, or do you see how nice Goldilocks had it when she got to choose amongst the Three Bear's delicious porridge?
I'm not Goldilocks, and I don't like porridge. I don't think there is a single addon in my interface that I haven't changed at least one setting for. Part of this is personal preference and playstyle, which cannot be accounted for by any default configuration, and part of it is the fact that most addon authors apparently have superhuman vision and/or play at stone age resolutions, and make everything microscopically tiny by default. I don't even use my own addons with their default settings, because when I choose default settings, I consider more than my own preferences and needs; in fact, I consider my own preferences and needs much less important than those I think are more common, because I strive to make my addons as straightforward to configure as possible.
I also fail to see where I'm insisting on not having choices. My concern is that I will have to jump through hoops to be able to configure things directly and not deal with any automatic profile changing, status grouping, or other "features" whose sole purpose is to act as a barrier between the user and the actual configuration.
Right now you can already open Grid2 and do exactly that.
Not really, since I can't delete or rename indicators, meaning that I'm stuck with either putting multiple indicators in the same place or assigning Earth Shield and Riptide to an indicator called "aggro".
If you do use the easy config options you save yourself a lot of time.
Except that the "easy config options" won't give me the configuration I want. You've very clearly expressed your disdain for the notion of an indicator that shows more than one "category" of status, which very clearly tells me that none of the configurations you design and bundle with the addon will be anything like the way I use Grid.
So do you still think presets and categories unnecessary? Do you see no value in them for yourself? That is perfectly fine, you are simply not the target market for them. Do you see no value in them for all Grid2 users? Personally I see value in them and I think some if not most users would agree.
I think categories are fine -- most users will be satisfied with assigning "HoTs" to indicator X, and "My Buffs" to indicator Y -- as long as it is possible to ignore them without a hassle.
I think presets for "minimal", "medium", and "everything" configurations are a waste of time and resources. Set up one usable and moderate configuration for each class/role (i.e. one profile for "Druid - Resto" and one profile for "Druid - Balance/Feral") and just make the configuration easy and intuitive to use directly. Consider the minimum information that works for most people, and forget what you personally want. When you write the addon, you can configure your own settings in no time at all. Worry less about yourself and more about users who have never used your addon before, or have never used any addon before. In the long run this will be less work for you, less hassle for users.
Whatever you do, however, if I cannot easily make direct configuration changes and disable all automatic grouping, switching, and self-updating features, I will not use the addon. If nothing I've already said has managed to affect your configuration design, there's not really anything else I can say that would do so either, so this will be my last post in any of your Grid2-related threads until there is something else to talk about.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I lol'ed.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Project AuthorI've seen pictures of Tekkub, he does look like a teddybear :) All soft n cuddly.
Well, that's how you look, I am not saying it is indeed how you are ;) (The Blizzcon meeting thing with WoWi)
Look, all you need to know about Tekkub is that he has "push button to receive bacon" technology. Everyone loves bacon so by association everyone loves Tekkub. Therefore imaginationland is real.
more hits for people with other color taste.
http://www.google.de/search?q=love+is+a+fallacy
I think I am blind now - The red bg and white text. I can't even read it.
You sir, are incorrect! Bacon is teh yuck. I still love Tekkub though.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Project AuthorGeoCities - Making people blind for over a decade!
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumWhen proposing default settings, rank them in order of importance. Once everyone agrees that there's nothing missing from the list and mostly agree on the order, then you can argue where to draw the line (or multiple lines).
I personally feel that Grid shouldn't be showing your self buffs, or any buff that lasts for more than 10 minutes. There's plenty of addons that are very good at tracking buffs, let them be good at that. Let Grid be good at letting you know who needs your attention in-combat first.
I love you!
So, do we have a wiki page? Or shall I create one?
* Eventually it would be nice to combine these into a single indicator with a "show only if at least X healing incoming over the next Y seconds" threshold, but that won't be possible until LibHealComm supports HoTs. It would also need to account for HoTs active from people who weren't running LibHealComm.
This is a good point. A lot of the buffs are pretty irrelevant and worse meaningless clutter sometimes. I think they can do with splitting into minimal / medium / everything categories to help the disabling process / avoid it to begin with.
I am not totally sure what you mean by this. Do you mean multiple thresholds? So for instance Blue below 30% Light Blue below 50%. Or binary as in only on for certain classes?
The list looks good to me as a generic basis for all healers. The only thing I would prioritize higher would be target since it is not optional for me. I use target then cast instead of clique. Also specifically for trees my hots would be split out along with a status for swiftmendable.
Well I rebuff people in combat now after a rez (massive mana pool and regen + cheap buff inscription). Having this in Grid means I can keep my attention focused on Grid.
That said, this is certainly something optional. The config can make it easy to set up in its entirety for a particular class but does not force anyone to actually use it. So for instance if we go with the category thing the category would set motw/gotw and thorns for a druid with one click instead of having to configure all 3 individually.
Well, those mana thresholds you mention are ok, but I think Phanx means that she'd like to be able to set a threshold when this indicator becomes visible. eg. Below 40% MP then show that indicator, while some may want it to show up at 50% etc. :)
I would like to add to the default healer setup :
- Set the health deficit to show faster, most healers don't quite care about names as much as they do on missing health :)
It's much easier to pick and choose which specific debuffs I want to show if they are all together. Please stop with this "three config presets for everything" stuff. Most people who aren't happy with default settings won't be happy with the other default settings or the other other default settings either. Just make the configuration easy to use directly, and stop making assumptions about what people will or will not want to see and how/where they want to see it. :|
"Binary" as in binary. On or off. Either the status is active or it's not. This is how the "Low Mana" status in Grid(1)already works.
I thought you didn't believe in a priority system and wanted everything on separate indicators so you could see it all at once? :p
Wouldn't a "can Swiftmend" status need to be part of the "grouped buffs" plugin, rather than the core, since it should show up if any of several buffs are active on the unit?
I think most people will set up Grid once, and maybe make a few tweaks the first few times they use it, and then rarely touch the configuration again, making all of these presets and categories unnecessary. But, as long as it's also possible to configure all 3 individually without jumping through hoops or installing a plugin, I won't complain too much.
I think we have some kind of misunderstanding on this topic. I will spell it out in detail so that we can try to talk about and critique the same idea. Lets assume raid debuffs are broken into 2 or 3 sets you can quickly choose from in the setup. Next lets step through how it could work in practice. Note that there are other possible implementations as well, this is just one example.
You have a popup that lets you pick "None", "Critical", "Lots" sets, as well as "Everything". You pick "Critical" and it selects 10% of the debuffs. Things like Kel'Thuzads Frost Blast which need immediate heals or someone dies. It disables 90% of them because they are things you cannot act on or are of no or negligible impact on your behavior. Picking "Lots" gets you lots more. Picking "Everything" chooses everything, "None" deselects everything.
If you decide that you are not happy with the settings, you pick one setting and then add / remove till you get what you want. From the sounds of it you want to be able to select "None" and add what you want.
Later on Blizzard releases a patch and there are for arguments sake 1 new critical debuff and one minor debuff. The critical one goes into the 10% list and is automatically added and activated for people that had chosen the critical list. Both are added to the "Lots" and "Everything" sets and also added and activated. Neither are added for people that chose "None"
As a Grid power user that wants to personally select everything how did this affect you? Well if you really want to do it from scratch then you have to select "Everything" and whittle it down or "Nothing" and add stuff. One selection step is introduced before you do what you used to do, and it is only there if the default choice is not it already.
Ok so there it is, both a potential implementation as well as the cost to you as someone that just wants to directly select everything. Do you still insist on not having choices, or do you see how nice Goldilocks had it when she got to choose amongst the Three Bear's delicious porridge?
Yes, as detailed in previous posts it will be part of Grid2StatusAuraGroup.
Of course it will be possible to create and configure individual indicators. Right now you can already open Grid2 and do exactly that.
The point of all this layering on top of the basic config is to essentially crowd-source a good config / elements of a good config from people that post here and from our experiences setting up Grid for other people. The impact in all cases is likely to be negligible to you if you insist on configuring Grid2 exactly how you configured Grid. If you do use the easy config options you save yourself a lot of time.
So do you still think presets and categories unnecessary? Do you see no value in them for yourself? That is perfectly fine, you are simply not the target market for them. Do you see no value in them for all Grid2 users? Personally I see value in them and I think some if not most users would agree.
I still think this is unnecessary bloat and overkill, since if it is more difficult to enable or disable a specific setting or two than it is to switch between entire configurations, your UI design is a failure of epic proportions. But as long as these presets are not the only option, I suppose you are free to spend your time coding this instead of fixing the many outstanding bugs in core functionality. :|
If the only way to avoid having statuses automatically added, removed, or altered by updates is to select the "None" profile, be sure to make it very clear in the UI that all other profiles are subject to automatic modification at the whim of anyone who can commit to the project and tag a release.
I'm not Goldilocks, and I don't like porridge. I don't think there is a single addon in my interface that I haven't changed at least one setting for. Part of this is personal preference and playstyle, which cannot be accounted for by any default configuration, and part of it is the fact that most addon authors apparently have superhuman vision and/or play at stone age resolutions, and make everything microscopically tiny by default. I don't even use my own addons with their default settings, because when I choose default settings, I consider more than my own preferences and needs; in fact, I consider my own preferences and needs much less important than those I think are more common, because I strive to make my addons as straightforward to configure as possible.
I also fail to see where I'm insisting on not having choices. My concern is that I will have to jump through hoops to be able to configure things directly and not deal with any automatic profile changing, status grouping, or other "features" whose sole purpose is to act as a barrier between the user and the actual configuration.
Not really, since I can't delete or rename indicators, meaning that I'm stuck with either putting multiple indicators in the same place or assigning Earth Shield and Riptide to an indicator called "aggro".
Except that the "easy config options" won't give me the configuration I want. You've very clearly expressed your disdain for the notion of an indicator that shows more than one "category" of status, which very clearly tells me that none of the configurations you design and bundle with the addon will be anything like the way I use Grid.
I think categories are fine -- most users will be satisfied with assigning "HoTs" to indicator X, and "My Buffs" to indicator Y -- as long as it is possible to ignore them without a hassle.
I think presets for "minimal", "medium", and "everything" configurations are a waste of time and resources. Set up one usable and moderate configuration for each class/role (i.e. one profile for "Druid - Resto" and one profile for "Druid - Balance/Feral") and just make the configuration easy and intuitive to use directly. Consider the minimum information that works for most people, and forget what you personally want. When you write the addon, you can configure your own settings in no time at all. Worry less about yourself and more about users who have never used your addon before, or have never used any addon before. In the long run this will be less work for you, less hassle for users.
Whatever you do, however, if I cannot easily make direct configuration changes and disable all automatic grouping, switching, and self-updating features, I will not use the addon. If nothing I've already said has managed to affect your configuration design, there's not really anything else I can say that would do so either, so this will be my last post in any of your Grid2-related threads until there is something else to talk about.