I am concerned about this change from r5896: "Remove all options from bossblock. Either use this module or don't." Due to this change, I will not be updating this module anymore, because I do not want to hide boss emotes from the boss emote frame.
I too really miss this option. I never blocked the boss emotes because I found them useful. It therefore follows that I found the option to selectively block things useful.
It looks like a number of things particularly around the config area are in flux at the moment so I'm hoping that where things are now is just an interim step to where we're going to end up but I'm alarmed by the mass disapearance of a number of options that I used to run in 'non-default' settings.
Perhaps we should all remember that these are currently Alpha versions and lets see where we end up as we approach release... Fingers crossed =)
Seriously? Why are you doing this? I found it easier to create a custom local bar from the menu than from a slash command (which usually took several attempts to spell correctly since it's a jumble of consonsants) and I hate the "shake" function.
If this trend toward the removal of all options continues, I'm sad to say it will probably drive me away from the addon I've been using since I started raiding way back in Molten Core. :(
I can't think of a valid reason to remove all this stuff we got used to in all this years.
They aren't bloat and if you don't like them, you could always turn them off.
As Zidomo already said this is breaking LittleWigs as well.
Announcing warnings to chat for all players which don't have /don't want to have or even have but are "sleeping" was a very useful feature, especially with PUGs in 5mans or vault of archavon.
I like the small footprint of BW and the way it works, the possibility to create your own modules ,custom timers and stuff, but why can't you at least give reasons for your decisions so we can talk this over?
I don't want to mess around with a local copy which still has the features you removed but there is little to no choice :(
eh, I do know they have been talking in IRC alot about revamping BigWigs for Ace3. These could be intermediary stages for that revamp. The Options table & format alone have a lot of reworking to do from ace2's format to ace3's.
I say wait and see what happens. No need to have a knee jerk reation about these things. In other words, alpha is alpha, complain about beta and release.
I've used BigWigs for years for the following reasons (in order of importance).
1. "Alert to events but don't force tactics on raiders" design philosophy.
2. Low maintenance from a guild perspective:
RL/A can run it alone and the raid will still get major warnings even if they don't. (they'll just miss personal alerts)
3. Sane defaults.
4. Very configurable if the defaults don't suit you.
5. LittleWigs (sue me but I still PuG... to meet new people/recruit, to relax in a low responsibility environment, to miss my guildies :P)
I don't know where the recent changes are going but I'll admit I've started looking at alternatives.
I appreciate all the work that's gone into BigWigs and the mileage I've personally gotten out of it sofar,
so I'll definitely be looking at it again when it's not in such a state of constant flux.
(staying away from alphas is not really an option while changes to the actual raid modules are still happening and we're progressing in said zones).
If it takes a permanent turn to an addon I can't identify to the things that made me choose it over alternatives in the first place,
I'll be moving on while extending my thanks to everyone that's worked on it in the time I've used it. :)
I can't think of a valid reason to remove all this stuff we got used to in all this years.
Neither can I, tbh. While, I wasn't using BossBlock extensively and I can't really say that it has affected me that much, it's options were very much meaningful. But the Fns and custombar nukage, was pretty severe and since I'd rather die a horrible death before switching to DBM, I'm at a dead end.
Neither can I, tbh. While, I wasn't using BossBlock extensively and I can't really say that it has affected me that much, it's options were very much meaningful. But the Fns and custombar nukage, was pretty severe and since I'd rather die a horrible death before switching to DBM, I'm at a dead end.
Was looking at the projects page, noticed Ackis had coded something to block BigWigs spam, and went and saw this on log in:
You're running an ALPHA RELEASE of Big Wigs. NOTHING you see here is final, and you are NOT allowed to file bug reports about ANYTHING. If you have any comments on the ongoing development of the next major release, which includes a conversion to Ace3, then you can join us on IRC.
...which is why branches were invented in the version control universe. Why they're not being utilized here is unknown.
The authors have expressed on IRC that users are only supposed to use release versions, and that alphas are not meant to be used - they are basically using trunk for all their major development work - just as SVN intended.
Branches are not used because they don't get tested/seen by users and the authors get no feedback.
[Yes, I'm aware that's kinda contradictory about whether they want users to use/test their alphas.]
Yeah talk about a contradiction... So when we see this:
r5853 | rabbit | 2009-08-23 01:35:59 +0000 (Sun, 23 Aug 2009) | 1 line
Changed paths:
M /trunk/Coliseum/Champions.lua Translate Faction Champions. Still completely untested, someone gief feedback?
we should ignore it... or not... go figure.
Would have been nice to explain what was going on. Particularly if they want feedback. Also, the change log is pretty confusing. It does state clearly that raid warnings are not coming back and that the Bossblock options are clearly gone.
I'll wait and see but if this goes through, I will not using Big Wigs anymore. I'll miss LittleWigs and CommonAuras...
Yeah, the changelogs and actual code changes with regard to removing options from the various modules look pretty final. The options and all references to them are completely removed. Everything points away from the "this is transitional" argument. :|
I've used BigWigs for years for the following reasons (in order of importance).
1. "Alert to events but don't force tactics on raiders" design philosophy.
2. Low maintenance from a guild perspective:
RL/A can run it alone and the raid will still get major warnings even if they don't. (they'll just miss personal alerts)
3. Sane defaults.
4. Very configurable if the defaults don't suit you.
5. LittleWigs (sue me but I still PuG... to meet new people/recruit, to relax in a low responsibility environment, to miss my guildies :P)
I don't know where the recent changes are going but I'll admit I've started looking at alternatives.
The same is true for me.
This may be only be my opinion, and I don't want to insult anyone (as they did a great job for years now), but to me it seems that BigWigs is getting more and more user-unfriendly. This makes me sad, as I was loving this addon for over two years now...
For similar reasons I have started looking at DXE now.
Don't get me wrong, while DXE has some interesting ideas I think BigWigs has it's own unique approach, but the recent removal of things without even a visible "gathering of ideas" is a bit weird indeed.
Sure, an addon is first the author's. But then I'd at least love a short post telling me what the personal plans of the author are so that I know whether it'll be an addon for me or not. I don't mind addon X not being useful for me, but I like if I can know beforehand where development is taking an addon.
That being said, I very well think there is space for at least 3 bossaddons. Minimal (BigWigs?), High-Visibility (Deus Vox), Allrounder (DBM).
[Yes, I'm aware that's kinda contradictory about whether they want users to use/test their alphas.]
Its very contradictory. The first time in years of using/testing/making small changes to BigWigs that I've heard of such an attitude. What's the reason for the shift?
As for the wholesale feature nuking in the current alphas, if it was a transitional move (to Ace3), no problem. But if that were the case, comments to that effect more than likely would have been put in the changelog. But no comments about the removals being temporary have been put in.
Current alphas are moving things to Ace3, starting with a transition to AceLocale. The options for everything previously nuked are skill nuked. Looks highly likely they will stay nuked.
Besides people getting anxious about the non-conditional changelogs, losing essential features they have relied on for years, etc., there are other concerns. One of them (here at least) is anticipation of the already too-limited user base of BigWigs heading in the direction of zero if the discussed feature changes remain in the next release.
Its not really just a "But if you feel you need to switch, go ahead, no-one is forcing you to use anything" sort of thing, with people only getting upset over missing features and having to go elsewhere to get them back. Its also a number of users/testers/authors/fans, etc. liking & preferring BigWigs as a viable, better alternative to other boss mods and have for years seeing things changing in a negative way...for no particularly valid or announced reason so far (see below). If the reasons for the changes were more clear here and/or in the changelogs, there would likely be less outcry.
Reasons are speculation at this point. But its the lack of official announcements which are prompting the speculation. Perhaps one (or a couple) of authors suddenly prefer having it transform into a mega-slim, feature-limited--yet increasingly useless for many/most--boss mod. Or (much preferably) the reason is simply that its all transitional while shifting to Ace3.
Yes, we were (in a rather bombastic way) pointed to IRC (only) for discussion of the changes. That assumes:
1) that people leading the direction of the next BigWigs will actually be there when others with feedback to give log on.
2) those leaders are actually interested in discussing changes with those others.
3) people wanting to discuss the changes--someplace other than the forums/tickets/mod page comments where most all other mods here are discussed--have the time to roll the dice and log on to IRC with the chance of one or both of the two points above being "no".
Here's hoping for a positive outcome for BigWigs in the end.
I too really miss this option. I never blocked the boss emotes because I found them useful. It therefore follows that I found the option to selectively block things useful.
It looks like a number of things particularly around the config area are in flux at the moment so I'm hoping that where things are now is just an interim step to where we're going to end up but I'm alarmed by the mass disapearance of a number of options that I used to run in 'non-default' settings.
Perhaps we should all remember that these are currently Alpha versions and lets see where we end up as we approach release... Fingers crossed =)
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse Premium(although people using dbm wont help syncing here...)
graywolfe, i hope you're right but i very much doubt it,
if they come back, we will see healthbars for multi bossencounters as well 8-)
Seriously? Why are you doing this? I found it easier to create a custom local bar from the menu than from a slash command (which usually took several attempts to spell correctly since it's a jumble of consonsants) and I hate the "shake" function.
If this trend toward the removal of all options continues, I'm sad to say it will probably drive me away from the addon I've been using since I started raiding way back in Molten Core. :(
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumThey aren't bloat and if you don't like them, you could always turn them off.
As Zidomo already said this is breaking LittleWigs as well.
Announcing warnings to chat for all players which don't have /don't want to have or even have but are "sleeping" was a very useful feature, especially with PUGs in 5mans or vault of archavon.
I like the small footprint of BW and the way it works, the possibility to create your own modules ,custom timers and stuff, but why can't you at least give reasons for your decisions so we can talk this over?
I don't want to mess around with a local copy which still has the features you removed but there is little to no choice :(
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumI say wait and see what happens. No need to have a knee jerk reation about these things. In other words, alpha is alpha, complain about beta and release.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse Premium-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse Premium1. "Alert to events but don't force tactics on raiders" design philosophy.
2. Low maintenance from a guild perspective:
RL/A can run it alone and the raid will still get major warnings even if they don't. (they'll just miss personal alerts)
3. Sane defaults.
4. Very configurable if the defaults don't suit you.
5. LittleWigs (sue me but I still PuG... to meet new people/recruit, to relax in a low responsibility environment, to miss my guildies :P)
I don't know where the recent changes are going but I'll admit I've started looking at alternatives.
I appreciate all the work that's gone into BigWigs and the mileage I've personally gotten out of it sofar,
so I'll definitely be looking at it again when it's not in such a state of constant flux.
(staying away from alphas is not really an option while changes to the actual raid modules are still happening and we're progressing in said zones).
If it takes a permanent turn to an addon I can't identify to the things that made me choose it over alternatives in the first place,
I'll be moving on while extending my thanks to everyone that's worked on it in the time I've used it. :)
Neither can I, tbh. While, I wasn't using BossBlock extensively and I can't really say that it has affected me that much, it's options were very much meaningful. But the Fns and custombar nukage, was pretty severe and since I'd rather die a horrible death before switching to DBM, I'm at a dead end.
Tried DXE?
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse Premium-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Project Author...which is why branches were invented in the version control universe. Why they're not being utilized here is unknown.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumThe authors have expressed on IRC that users are only supposed to use release versions, and that alphas are not meant to be used - they are basically using trunk for all their major development work - just as SVN intended.
Branches are not used because they don't get tested/seen by users and the authors get no feedback.
[Yes, I'm aware that's kinda contradictory about whether they want users to use/test their alphas.]
r5853 | rabbit | 2009-08-23 01:35:59 +0000 (Sun, 23 Aug 2009) | 1 line
Changed paths:
M /trunk/Coliseum/Champions.lua Translate Faction Champions. Still completely untested, someone gief feedback?
we should ignore it... or not... go figure.
Would have been nice to explain what was going on. Particularly if they want feedback. Also, the change log is pretty confusing. It does state clearly that raid warnings are not coming back and that the Bossblock options are clearly gone.
I'll wait and see but if this goes through, I will not using Big Wigs anymore. I'll miss LittleWigs and CommonAuras...
The same is true for me.
This may be only be my opinion, and I don't want to insult anyone (as they did a great job for years now), but to me it seems that BigWigs is getting more and more user-unfriendly. This makes me sad, as I was loving this addon for over two years now...
Don't get me wrong, while DXE has some interesting ideas I think BigWigs has it's own unique approach, but the recent removal of things without even a visible "gathering of ideas" is a bit weird indeed.
Sure, an addon is first the author's. But then I'd at least love a short post telling me what the personal plans of the author are so that I know whether it'll be an addon for me or not. I don't mind addon X not being useful for me, but I like if I can know beforehand where development is taking an addon.
That being said, I very well think there is space for at least 3 bossaddons. Minimal (BigWigs?), High-Visibility (Deus Vox), Allrounder (DBM).
Its very contradictory. The first time in years of using/testing/making small changes to BigWigs that I've heard of such an attitude. What's the reason for the shift?
As for the wholesale feature nuking in the current alphas, if it was a transitional move (to Ace3), no problem. But if that were the case, comments to that effect more than likely would have been put in the changelog. But no comments about the removals being temporary have been put in.
Current alphas are moving things to Ace3, starting with a transition to AceLocale. The options for everything previously nuked are skill nuked. Looks highly likely they will stay nuked.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumBut if you feel you need to switch, go ahead, no-one is forcing you to use anything.
-Ammo
Besides people getting anxious about the non-conditional changelogs, losing essential features they have relied on for years, etc., there are other concerns. One of them (here at least) is anticipation of the already too-limited user base of BigWigs heading in the direction of zero if the discussed feature changes remain in the next release.
Its not really just a "But if you feel you need to switch, go ahead, no-one is forcing you to use anything" sort of thing, with people only getting upset over missing features and having to go elsewhere to get them back. Its also a number of users/testers/authors/fans, etc. liking & preferring BigWigs as a viable, better alternative to other boss mods and have for years seeing things changing in a negative way...for no particularly valid or announced reason so far (see below). If the reasons for the changes were more clear here and/or in the changelogs, there would likely be less outcry.
Reasons are speculation at this point. But its the lack of official announcements which are prompting the speculation. Perhaps one (or a couple) of authors suddenly prefer having it transform into a mega-slim, feature-limited--yet increasingly useless for many/most--boss mod. Or (much preferably) the reason is simply that its all transitional while shifting to Ace3.
Yes, we were (in a rather bombastic way) pointed to IRC (only) for discussion of the changes. That assumes:
1) that people leading the direction of the next BigWigs will actually be there when others with feedback to give log on.
2) those leaders are actually interested in discussing changes with those others.
3) people wanting to discuss the changes--someplace other than the forums/tickets/mod page comments where most all other mods here are discussed--have the time to roll the dice and log on to IRC with the chance of one or both of the two points above being "no".
Here's hoping for a positive outcome for BigWigs in the end.