The format of the CTRT Import specification does have its limitations. Depending on the dkp policy, when items are set as Bank or DE, it does not really pose an issue. Its offspec or 'discounted price' items that are tricky to track. Our guild offer off-spec items at a flat discounted rate, so the challenge for the person taking DKP is to remember what items are offspec. We currently work around this by entering a keyplace value in the DKP cost text field. For normal priced items, we leave it as zero. When importing into CTRT, we will manually enter the dkp cost of the normal items, and when we see the keyplace value, we replace it with the discounted cost.
Having the mod read the default values, off-spec values from a user maintained lua file would speed the administration process up. For normal priced item, the default value is picked up, and if the user selects off-spec, the mod can read the discounted value. If this approach is taken, it might be a good idea to add another button on the screen, so the user can select 'Normal', 'Bank', 'DE', Offspec'.
As the 'Bank' and 'DE' options in a non-zero sum dkp system would mean that no dkp is awarded or deducted, its serves more as a listing purpose. However, the offspec bid would indicate that the item is semi-unwanted, and as such the cost is reduced to prevent sharding. In a zero-sum dkp system, the same approach can be taken, for the mod to read 'DE' values to allocate a dkp value, if the dkp policy states that de items cost less.
All in all, i think this would be a generic implementation that can be customized by the end user to fit their needs. It is preferable that the values be read from a standalone file, so the user can edit it externally with existing text editor tools. Having a global setting/default calculation for offspec items would be a nice feature. Eg (-50%), so the user only needs to maintain the normal dkp cost, and the mod can calculate discounted items on the fly. If there is a user specified offspec value, the mod can read that value, instead of the global value, hence this would allow individual item customization
Integrating waitlist functionality is, in my opinion one of the hardest feature, as different guilds award waitlist dkp differently. In most cases, this would result that the mod's logic would only apply to guilds subscribing to the implemented approach.
What I propose is to split the functionality to allow generic WL features, but allow the user to handle exception cases.
Most guilds award DKP to players on the waitlist, the difference is the condition in which a player is entitled to DKP.
Case A - Ontime Waitlist
Player is in raid before raid start, get placed on waitlist, and is treated as if they are in the physical (5/25man)raid . When the raid gets awarded dkp, these players get the same dkp value as players in the raid. However, players that are not ontime, but joined the waitlist late, although they are in the walitlist, they are not awarded any dkp.
Case B - Free for All Walitlist
As long as a player is on the waitlist, irregardless of when they joined it, they get dkp for that event.
I believe those 2 are the main differences in guild DKP policies. The difficulty in administrating Case A is inherent in tracking limitations, as such most guilds and mods adopt the Case B approach.
However, if we treat waitlist attendance as an exception instead of the norm, its possible to create a generic package that would work out of the box, but still allow the user the ability to manually add/edit waitlist players.
- Allow players to add /remove themselves to the list via priv msgs
- Listing players on waitlist.
- Tracking the time a user join/left the waitlist.
Integration to attendence & DKP
When an event is triggered, the mod will broadcast a message for players to take roll-call. Waitlist players need to respond to that message to be included into the attendance list. The user can set a time frame for the reply before closing the roll-call.
[Optional user specified logic : If a player is not on the waitlist, his rollcall will be ignored. If set to true, if player adds himself to the list when rollcall is announced, he gets on to the list, but roll call for that event is ignored. This ensures that all players register themselves on the waitlist before hand.]
The players in the specified 'Raid List Group' (G1-G5) will always be tracked.
Players that responded to rollcall and is valid goes onto a separate listbox gui.
|#<Player A>###|`````|#<WLPlayer G> [ChkBox]##|
|#<Player B>###|`````|#<WLPlayer H> [ChkBox]##|
|#<Player C>###|`````|#<WLPlayer I> [ChkBox]##|
In order for waitlist players to get awarded dkp, the checkbox need to be toggled. If none is selected, the xml exported string would only contain the [Raid List] players.
This allows the mod to handle both cases, by adding a [Check All] button, the user can easily flag all waitlist players. This will handle Case B Free for all, and Case A will require the user to manually select the eligible players.
By setting G1 to G5 & G8 as the Raid List group, the user can move standby players to G8 to always get dkp, or set G1-G5 and have everyone else handled as normal waitlist players.
On a side note, I understand that works are also in the way to create user generated events. This would be a very nice feature, as it can be used to take ontime and raidend attendance. This would also allow the possibility to Auto toggle waitlist players that are found on the ontime event list.
I've noticed that players that go offline for extended periods of time still get recorded as long as they are in the raid. Is this a feature that is working as intended, or a settings issue?
I hope the feedback would be helpful when implementing the upcoming waitlist feature.
Needed some time to read your post over before responding...
I appreciate the effort taken by the authors and maintainers of the CTRT Import plugin for EQdkp and EQdkp Plus. It has made life a lot easier for many DKP administrators. That being said, I do not like the schema they chose, particularly how the plugin validates content data.
It would be possible to have an "ItemPrice.lua" file for users to enter in DKP data. This would be a generic way of allowing customization, but it doesn't solve the process of automating the task for the user. Instead of the user managing a manual task within the loot management screen, the user would have to manage a manual process for editing an file external to the game itself.
There is a advantage to using a separate file: customization. The user could edit standard DKP prices for items which the addon has not tracked yet.
Although I have started work on the feature, I still am very wary about adding a waitlist to the addon since it is an artificial construct from a WoW perspective. This means instead of using defined APIs and events that Blizzard has exposed, I have to make large assumptions to meet generic feature requirements. This also allows me to have more control, but opens the door for bigger problems down the line. I guess it's more healthy paranoia other than anything.
I have drafted a basic design of the waitlist on the project page.
I do like the idea of keeping a static waitlist for the raid. Users could manually kick off a rollcall accepting new users to the waitlist (for ontime bonuses or just to add players outside of the raid). Additionally, the same functionality could be put into place to automatically kick off a rollcall after, for example, a boss kill. This would allow players outside of the raid groups or raid itself to be added as attending a boss kill. The automatic event rollcall should be a configurable option. If users don't want to automatically take a rollcall after a boss kill, they could disable the configuration option.
Another option could be added as you said. On automatic rollcalls, if the user is not already on the "ontime" waitlist, then their whisper to be added is ignored.
I think when a player goes offline, that player is automatically moved to a "no list" group. They are still tracked as a player (since they were tracked previously), but their time totals apply to offline time. I do not believe offline players are automatically added to a boss kill attendee list, even if the offline player is in a configured raid list group.
Great addon so far! I come across some ideas lately that could make loot administration during raids a little easier.
While you relog (no reloadui) or a d/c crosses your path the active raid becomes inactive and a new raid is being created. This is a little unfortunate because you have to import two raids later on. A continue raid option to an already existing raid in the tracker would be nice.
Auto create new raid on new raid zone?
Naxx for example is quite easy and many items find a new owner at one evening. If I click on one member of my raid I can see it's class race etc, but is it possible to show the items this member obtained in this raid? Looking through a long list and find to items is quite...annoying especially when everybody forgets on what and how much he/she/it spents their dkp...
Or a sort by name or something option in the loot window.
Or color the looter's name.
Resize the whole frame at all?
If the loot window pops up, possible to add a hover tooltip over the actual item that it's cost is being asked for?
In my experience, I have only once had a problem when I crashed from the game, came back and lost data. That being said, it's WoW and bad things can occur to cause data loss (usually resulting from crashed, weird addon upgrades, and WoW patches). So far I've had no problems fortunately.
However, I'll keep an eye on this as I do restart from time to time during raids.
If I click on one member of my raid I can see it's class race etc, but is it possible to show the items this member obtained in this raid? Looking through a long list and find to items is quite...annoying especially when everybody forgets on what and how much he/she/it spents their dkp...
Or a sort by name or something option in the loot window.
Or color the looter's name.
I would greatly appreciate a feature such as this to either a) click a person's name to see all of the loot they earned this raid or b) the ability to sort the loot list based on looter's name, item name, boss or chronologically. I would prefer option a though. :)
This is a wonderful addon, thank you for all of your hard work!
I'm new to Headcount, and am really loving it. It's the perfect minimalist record of our raids. I have one small request/suggestion - I'd really like the cost of an item (from the Loot Management Popup) to be included in the PhPBB-ItemStats export file.
I had a suggestion for your waitlist, however I am uncertain if you'd appreciate it. There is an addon called ekwl, basically people add themselves and can remove themselves through tells. I wasn't sure if you were aware of this waitlist and thought you might like it better than using groups 6-8.
1. I added cost to the phpBB export strings in the most recent release (last night).
* Added cost label to phpBB export strings.
* Added difficulty label option for EQdkp export strings.
* Fixed defect in XML export where equals sign was missing from version attribute.
* Fixed missing battleground tracking configuration option.
* Fixed missing attendance delay configuration option.
* Fixed defect where 12-hour time formats were causing a nil error.
2. A work ticket was added to allow for display of loot per player in the member information frame.
3. Thank you for the waitlist suggestion. There currently is a design to manage a waitlist in this regard, but it hasn't been implemented just yet. I have a few more features to clear off the table first, then I will attempt to revisit the waitlist. The goal is to allow the addon user to manage waitlist players either via grouping or via private tells for greater flexibility.
great addon, been using it for some while now and love how its feature list keeps growing but it still remains nice and simple to use - great work in that respect :)
teeny tiny issue with the phpbb export option. The code it exports for pasting into the forum (I use simplemachines forums actually but the code still works nicely)..
[b ][u ]Naxxramas (Normal)[/ b][/ u]
Thats what is exported by the exporter part when as far as I know it should be:
[u ][b ]Naxxramas (Normal)[/ b][/ u]
(hmm.. would it be possible to maybe change the layout slightly so that the people in the raid is as it is now, but instead of having loot seperate from the bosses, the loot is added as subsection of the bosses instead?.. summat like..)
12/23/2008 20:58:29 - 12/24/2008 15:29:30
* Deafknight (Paladin)
Raid: 02:55:48, Standby: 00:00:00, Offline: 00:46:04
* Hack (Warrior)
Raid: 03:41:52, Standby: 00:00:00, Offline: 00:00:00
* Jagiell (Paladin)
Raid: 03:35:14, Standby: 00:00:00, Offline: 00:00:00
* Kazilk (Warrior)
Raid: 02:52:37, Standby: 00:00:00, Offline: 00:00:00
* Moostick (Druid)
Raid: 02:49:08, Standby: 00:00:00, Offline: 00:00:00
* Niak (Druid)
Raid: 03:37:05, Standby: 00:00:00, Offline: 00:00:00
* Norix (Paladin)
Raid: 03:08:25, Standby: 00:00:00, Offline: 00:02:34
* Noxie (Mage)
Raid: 02:54:44, Standby: 00:00:00, Offline: 00:00:00
* Royer (Mage)
Raid: 02:47:33, Standby: 00:00:00, Offline: 00:00:00
* Verbascum (Priest)
Raid: 02:43:41, Standby: 00:00:00, Offline: 00:00:00
* Kel'Thuzad at 12/23/2008 22:34:46
* [Helm of the Lost Vanquisher] by Moostick (Cost: 0)
* [Kel'Thuzad's Reach] by Hack (Cost: 0)
* [Staff of the Plaguehound] by Niak (Cost: 0)
* Sartharion at 12/23/2008 23:39:04
* [Gloves of the Lost Protector] by Hack (Cost: 0)
* [Circle of Arcane Streams] by Noxie (Cost: 0)
* [Dragon Hide Bag] by Verbascum (Cost: 0)
* [Satchel of Spoils] by Norix (Cost: 0)
If this is too much then I am willing to give it a go myself of course, which files am I looking at editing to adjust the end resulted export? :)