Yep, that pretty much covers my suspicion that it's not currently possible without code modification, and similar reasoning behind the request and for running 2 lists (dual specs, and people not wanting to lose position for bidding on an off spec item).
About the security settings, If you're going to this level, is there a way to consider options that would allow people outside of the guild channel to work with skg syncing? How difficult could it be to do a check on the raid channel as well as the guild channel? My raid isn't guild based but some of the most of the trustable people I'd truely like to have as loot master are in other guilds. Is this something that is possible now that the security system is being re-examined?
Unfortunately, no. This can really only be accomplished by removing security completely. I'll be honest, I have no intentions of implementing that anytime soon.
Yep, that pretty much covers my suspicion that it's not currently possible without code modification, and similar reasoning behind the request and for running 2 lists (dual specs, and people not wanting to lose position for bidding on an off spec item).
Correct, thats not currently possible to switch lists midstream. The idea of having the list be specified within the bid is *more* possible, but still alot of freaking work.
The idea of having the bid have a qualifier "main toon, off spec", "alt toon, main spec", etc ... is the easiest, but I was reminded yesterday that really can be accmomplished by a smart ML managing the loot distribution and doing this process that you're attempting to vet with automation with the occasional bid retraction. But I digress....
It won't be something implemented in this build. The security fix is the lowest hanging fruit right now with my limited time. I've already got a build I'm testing and can release this very soon if there aren't any major complaints.
I really can't think of any major downsides to this either. I seriously doubt anyone really uses Guild Info for anything meaningful...and if they do, a few characters out of 500 is a small price to pay for reliable security. And it's WAY better than the stupid Officer Note systems I've seen some other mods use. I say absolutely go for it! It'll be VERY nice to not have to worry about the current security problems hosing lists & permissions. Good call!
Education will probably be the biggest hurdle...idk if you were planning on implementing this part of it or not, but it would be nice if the current security panel could be retrofitted to place/update the necessary string in the Guild Information. Hopefully showing up based on auto-detecting whether you had permissions to edit the GI or not. Also, rank & manual auth being allowed simultaneously, 10-cap removed on # of manual users, etc. I realize that's a bit more work, but it might head off some initial tickets. Obviously you'll have to check to make sure there's enough room at the end of the GI and tell the user to manually clear some garbage out if there's insufficient space...but other than that, I could see this change going in seemlessly and almost invisibly to most users.
Well the problem that I see with it is that you're then managing guild ranks for an addon and not for your guild, in a way. What if you have people who will never handle ML in a raid, but are officers who have access to edit Guild Info? Too easy to screw something up that way if they aren't paying attention.
In my guild's case, I don't think Officer Note is used for anything at all, meaning the guild leader could limit Officer Note updates to themself only, in order to configure it and make sure nobody could mess it up. So I, personally, would hope to see that as an option as well/instead, if possible. Our guild info includes website, vent info, as well as some brief instructions (500 characters really aren't much in this context) for those less tech-savvy users... hence, why I said in our case we may or may not have room for it in guild info. If that's the only option to look forward to though, I guess well have to change some things.
In my guild's case, I don't think Officer Note is used for anything at all, meaning the guild leader could limit Officer Note updates to themself only, in order to configure it and make sure nobody could mess it up.
One problem with using officer notes is that, in most cases (and at least in the default case), most users in a guild do not even have access to view the officer note. So unless you mucked around with that as well, you're limiting the ability of the addon to even see how it should be configured. The Guild Info tab, on the other hand, is visible to all.
Well the problem that I see with it is that you're then managing guild ranks for an addon and not for your guild, in a way. What if you have people who will never handle ML in a raid, but are officers who have access to edit Guild Info? Too easy to screw something up that way if they aren't paying attention.
Like I said, I think the main hurdle will be education. Obviously anyone who can edit the Guild Info now effectively becomes a "Proxy User" who can alter the security policy. In this way, the Guild Leader still needs to set these "Proxy Users" via the in-game ranking system.
Obviously, you wouldn't want anyone below your sync user rank to be able to edit the GI or they would just be able to add themselves as sync users. I can't think of a real reason why anyone would need that anyway... Also, you'd want to inform anyone who can edit the GI not to mess with "the weird string on the bottom." I really can't imagine a lot of guilds edit their GI on anything close to a regular basis.
Easy solution for nobody messing it up? Make it so only the GL can edit it.
However, I thought of an interesting case that could be bad. Currently, if you change rank from U to S, your lists get blown away (I can't remember technically why) and you have to re-sync. Would this still be necessary? It might be nice if it were removed in case there DID wind up being a typo in the string or a sync user got accidentally removed and then re-added (or demoted in guild and then promoted again). This would be especially important if you only had one or two people running SKG (because if they lose the lists...:().
I hacked in a quick way to separate main/off bids for my guild. Basically it runs two bid lists internally instead of one. Bidders bid as main or off and the win goes to the highest main bidder, or the highest off bidder if there are no main bidders. This way, we could run both options off a single list for the raid, which is what we prefer at the moment.
The only other thing I'd ask for is a way to have an optional strict timing period. Ex: Bid opens for 30 seconds, with a 10 second warning, winner declared automatically at the end. I may have put a ticket in for that, actually.
well we use the skg for mainly mainspec loot. any off spec loot would be rolled for. so its not a big deal for us. the biggest issue has been the security
adding a string to the GI would be nice. im just wondering if there could be a faster way to sync the lists. right now were using the 3.1.6 beta.
if you are implementing this new security in the alphas how will it affect our current player and loot lists?
well we use the skg for mainly mainspec loot. any off spec loot would be rolled for. so its not a big deal for us. the biggest issue has been the security
adding a string to the GI would be nice. im just wondering if there could be a faster way to sync the lists. right now were using the 3.1.6 beta.
if you are implementing this new security in the alphas how will it affect our current player and loot lists?
THe change in security should not affect the lists in any way.
All right i guessing you haven't implemented the string value
were having bad issues with syncing and retaining our poxie and sync admins
if we log out w loose our security settings
Ok reverting back to beta and seeing if that corrects the issue
well after 4 hrs of trying to salvage our lists we have decited to just screen shot the one that is correct then have all the admins kill there skg.lua's and .bak's
one of our admins is going to resetup all the lists and well reapply the security's later Hopefully before raid.
I hope you can implement the new security string soon. it sound like a good idea and should hopefully resolve these security issues.
Our raid group would love to implement this addon, but it is almost impossible because of the security settings requiring a GL to implement. If you change the settings to the ones you proposed we would be able to use this addon.
The recent commit added in the AceLibrary embed, but didn't update the embeds.xml file to load it. Have a couple guild members with no other addons who mentioned getting an error in Dewdrop.
sorry if this has already been mentioned, but my crossguild (guild we do 25mans with) use SKG from here, iv installed and looked through documentaion, but sofar iv found no way to broadcast lists to ppl who are not in the same guild as the skg "leader" (the crossguild guild leader), when he trys to broadcast to me i dont get the list, but everyone in his guild gets it. is there a way around this?, i only want the list for viewing purposes. as would rest in our guild who raid with them. thanks for reply, and again sorry if iv missed this in documentation.
sorry if this has already been mentioned, but my crossguild (guild we do 25mans with) use SKG from here, iv installed and looked through documentaion, but sofar iv found no way to broadcast lists to ppl who are not in the same guild as the skg "leader" (the crossguild guild leader), when he trys to broadcast to me i dont get the list, but everyone in his guild gets it. is there a way around this?, i only want the list for viewing purposes. as would rest in our guild who raid with them. thanks for reply, and again sorry if iv missed this in documentation.
The way around this does not involve non-guildies running the mod. The features allowing other people to see their positions in the list include the following:
Spamming the list to raid chat via the "Spam List" button
Individuals whispering people running the mod with the keyword "suicide" (by far used the most for us)
Posting your lists online between raids using the skg_web system
We are in the same situation as you (raiding via guild alliance) and have found these to be adequate. While it would be nice to have cross-guild communication, Zhinjio has stated this won't be done anytime soon. As long as you keep your SKG admins in the guild with the largest constituency, highest attendance, or most trustworthiness/reliability of the alliance, you should probably be fine.
First there are two steps to cut down on list data loss with SKG and both are very simple.
1) Reload your UI after EVERY loot event to force your data to be saved.
2) Backup your SKG.lua file after EVERY raid night.
These steps will ensure that your data is backed up and ready for quick use should the ground-zero disaster hit your lists.
I cannot help you with the reloading of the data, but I can help you with the data backup.
SKG Web is designed specifically to give your SKG looters a central spot for backing up their data. It provides a central, off-site location for timestamped backups of your guild's data and as a side also provides a nifty display for your latest loot and your lists.
I am the author of SKG Web and have been working in conjunction with Geo for awhile on it now, and currently am in beta testing with it. You can find it on Curse or here on ace in the projects. The only thing is that your webserver MUST be running PHP5 and MySQL.
I'm hoping on upgrading SKG Web to release status within the week and ask for help on ideas of what can be implemented to enhance the system further. So feel free to drop tickets if you have a problem or you have an idea to make it better.
Anyway, Geo, I hope I didn't step on any toes by blatantly adverting the server side for SKG, but I really feel bad for Drikan and his guild.
Yep, that pretty much covers my suspicion that it's not currently possible without code modification, and similar reasoning behind the request and for running 2 lists (dual specs, and people not wanting to lose position for bidding on an off spec item).
Unfortunately, no. This can really only be accomplished by removing security completely. I'll be honest, I have no intentions of implementing that anytime soon.
Correct, thats not currently possible to switch lists midstream. The idea of having the list be specified within the bid is *more* possible, but still alot of freaking work.
The idea of having the bid have a qualifier "main toon, off spec", "alt toon, main spec", etc ... is the easiest, but I was reminded yesterday that really can be accmomplished by a smart ML managing the loot distribution and doing this process that you're attempting to vet with automation with the occasional bid retraction. But I digress....
It won't be something implemented in this build. The security fix is the lowest hanging fruit right now with my limited time. I've already got a build I'm testing and can release this very soon if there aren't any major complaints.
Education will probably be the biggest hurdle...idk if you were planning on implementing this part of it or not, but it would be nice if the current security panel could be retrofitted to place/update the necessary string in the Guild Information. Hopefully showing up based on auto-detecting whether you had permissions to edit the GI or not. Also, rank & manual auth being allowed simultaneously, 10-cap removed on # of manual users, etc. I realize that's a bit more work, but it might head off some initial tickets. Obviously you'll have to check to make sure there's enough room at the end of the GI and tell the user to manually clear some garbage out if there's insufficient space...but other than that, I could see this change going in seemlessly and almost invisibly to most users.
In my guild's case, I don't think Officer Note is used for anything at all, meaning the guild leader could limit Officer Note updates to themself only, in order to configure it and make sure nobody could mess it up. So I, personally, would hope to see that as an option as well/instead, if possible. Our guild info includes website, vent info, as well as some brief instructions (500 characters really aren't much in this context) for those less tech-savvy users... hence, why I said in our case we may or may not have room for it in guild info. If that's the only option to look forward to though, I guess well have to change some things.
One problem with using officer notes is that, in most cases (and at least in the default case), most users in a guild do not even have access to view the officer note. So unless you mucked around with that as well, you're limiting the ability of the addon to even see how it should be configured. The Guild Info tab, on the other hand, is visible to all.
Like I said, I think the main hurdle will be education. Obviously anyone who can edit the Guild Info now effectively becomes a "Proxy User" who can alter the security policy. In this way, the Guild Leader still needs to set these "Proxy Users" via the in-game ranking system.
Obviously, you wouldn't want anyone below your sync user rank to be able to edit the GI or they would just be able to add themselves as sync users. I can't think of a real reason why anyone would need that anyway... Also, you'd want to inform anyone who can edit the GI not to mess with "the weird string on the bottom." I really can't imagine a lot of guilds edit their GI on anything close to a regular basis.
Easy solution for nobody messing it up? Make it so only the GL can edit it.
However, I thought of an interesting case that could be bad. Currently, if you change rank from U to S, your lists get blown away (I can't remember technically why) and you have to re-sync. Would this still be necessary? It might be nice if it were removed in case there DID wind up being a typo in the string or a sync user got accidentally removed and then re-added (or demoted in guild and then promoted again). This would be especially important if you only had one or two people running SKG (because if they lose the lists...:().
The only other thing I'd ask for is a way to have an optional strict timing period. Ex: Bid opens for 30 seconds, with a 10 second warning, winner declared automatically at the end. I may have put a ticket in for that, actually.
adding a string to the GI would be nice. im just wondering if there could be a faster way to sync the lists. right now were using the 3.1.6 beta.
if you are implementing this new security in the alphas how will it affect our current player and loot lists?
THe change in security should not affect the lists in any way.
so im going to have our admins go ahead and install the latest alpha and reset up the lists.
were having bad issues with syncing and retaining our poxie and sync admins
if we log out w loose our security settings
Ok reverting back to beta and seeing if that corrects the issue
one of our admins is going to resetup all the lists and well reapply the security's later Hopefully before raid.
I hope you can implement the new security string soon. it sound like a good idea and should hopefully resolve these security issues.
were looking forward to it.
The recent commit added in the AceLibrary embed, but didn't update the embeds.xml file to load it. Have a couple guild members with no other addons who mentioned getting an error in Dewdrop.
Thanks!
- Spamming the list to raid chat via the "Spam List" button
- Individuals whispering people running the mod with the keyword "suicide" (by far used the most for us)
- Posting your lists online between raids using the skg_web system
We are in the same situation as you (raiding via guild alliance) and have found these to be adequate. While it would be nice to have cross-guild communication, Zhinjio has stated this won't be done anytime soon. As long as you keep your SKG admins in the guild with the largest constituency, highest attendance, or most trustworthiness/reliability of the alliance, you should probably be fine.First there are two steps to cut down on list data loss with SKG and both are very simple.
1) Reload your UI after EVERY loot event to force your data to be saved.
2) Backup your SKG.lua file after EVERY raid night.
These steps will ensure that your data is backed up and ready for quick use should the ground-zero disaster hit your lists.
I cannot help you with the reloading of the data, but I can help you with the data backup.
SKG Web is designed specifically to give your SKG looters a central spot for backing up their data. It provides a central, off-site location for timestamped backups of your guild's data and as a side also provides a nifty display for your latest loot and your lists.
I am the author of SKG Web and have been working in conjunction with Geo for awhile on it now, and currently am in beta testing with it. You can find it on Curse or here on ace in the projects. The only thing is that your webserver MUST be running PHP5 and MySQL.
I'm hoping on upgrading SKG Web to release status within the week and ask for help on ideas of what can be implemented to enhance the system further. So feel free to drop tickets if you have a problem or you have an idea to make it better.
Anyway, Geo, I hope I didn't step on any toes by blatantly adverting the server side for SKG, but I really feel bad for Drikan and his guild.
Jabby
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