[2007/06/29 19:05:07-324-x2]: Omen-2.1r42254\OmenThreatBar.lua:188: attempt to index global 'L' (a nil value)
Omen-2.1r42254\OmenThreatBar.lua:171: in function `CreateBar'
Omen-2.1r42254\OmenDisplay.lua:307: in function <Interface\AddOns\Omen\OmenDisplay.lua:304>
so adds die.. and are resurrected again in fase 4.. and there is the global threat again on the weapons.
atm we're close to going back to ktm because of this global threat thingy making it almost useless for us to use. and i hate ktm..:)
Make sure folks are up to date; I did make one fix to global threat wipes yesterday. If it still isn't wiping global (ie, heal) threat, then please let me know and I'll investigate further.
atm we're close to going back to ktm because of this global threat thingy making it almost useless for us to use. and i hate ktm..:)
>.>
i hate to say it but if a ThreatMeeter is making or braking the raid ...
then i would believe you have "Bigger Fish to Fry"
Then you don't know some of those bosses out there
Critting on keal'thas for 9k has a high chance of overagro..so agro meters must be absolutely correct to "Ride the line"
we cleared ssc and tempestkeep.. so its going fine i'd say...
I just had my guild switch over to Omen because of all the sweet features except they're trying to switch back because of the one encounter that they tested it on.
They were doing Nightbane today and during the first 25% apparently DPSers who were way below the tank's threat were pulling aggro.
I wasn't there to witness it and I'm trying to get them to keep it so we can test it on a real boss in a real instance but I'm wondering if you could figure out why this would be happening?
They also claim that they completely disabled KTM (read: not just closing its GUI)
Also, I don't know what version of Omen they're using but at the earliest it would be from yesterday(June 29th) around 12:00 PM EST
We slaughtered Nightbane last night with absolutely no aggro problems using a mix of Omen/KTM. I've had no real continuing issues with it, other than the whole Void Reaver knockback coefficient figuring out.
Then you don't know some of those bosses out there
Critting on keal'thas for 9k has a high chance of overagro..so agro meters must be absolutely correct to "Ride the line"
we cleared ssc and tempestkeep.. so its going fine i'd say...
Still, you shouldn't need a Threatmeter.
Consider this:
There is no (nothing, not at all) threat-feedback in WoW except the damage/healing you do and your own judgement on how much threat that produces.
On the contrary, nearly all other addons, from raidframes over damagemeters to hud-addons, just re-use existing information, re-format it, and present it differently.
Threatmeters are a big exception. They "generate" information, from educated guesses about how abilities work on the threatlists of mobs.
It is comparable to using an external FAQ compared to a game-internal hint-function. A good example here would be Simon the Sorcerer IV.
It has 3 hint-levels for quests. The first is a general hint where to look, the second what to look for the, third is what specifically you have to do.
Yet - those are ingame hints. Enough people (granted, me included at the second time on that troll bridge :/ ) still look in an external Walkthrough since they can't figure out for themselves even with the specific knowledge of what to do, how to do it.
Threatmeters serve a similar role. You got the damage right on your screen. You played with the tank for ages. Is a bar in KTM or Omen really all you know about how the tank's attacks and your spells work?
I have Violation with Threat, but seriously it's closed. Nearly 100% of the time, it's just not opened. I know my threat, and at times I actually think "Hrm... are you close now or not?". It's rare, but then I open the threatmeter, take a look, and close it again.
Or let me put it this way:
If you need a Threatmeter, you got bigger problems, you need to (forgive the stereotypical wording) l2p. If you just use a Threatmeter, then that's all fine, and a good way to enhance your combat-prowess.
Exactly.
Threatmeters are "the easy way out". Ofc, unless an entire raid plays with a certain level of "gaming honor", everything which helps will be used, moraly-questionable-or-not.
Yet, at some point that can backfire. I prefer to be able to know my threat myself, at times opening my Violation and being pleased with being exactly where I thought I'd be in the threat.
Now if someone who has no idea of that is one day without his Threatmeter (say Threat gets randomized between certain boundaries, 50%-150%, and so there's no useful data at all anymore), they will wipe their raids. A LOT!
Yes, Nihilum does it with KTM.
Does that lower their "prowess" in my eyes? Yep, quite a ton.
Although I understand for them it's a safety net. I can't quite believe more than say 1 in a raid still needs that thing. But it's really like Decursive. Even back in the days, there were people skilled enough to do the same decursing speed ,without.
Still, most used it. Laziness ;)
If threat was random between 50% - 150% would mean that DPSers has stay on 50% to be sure... Practically it would almost half the DPS output... That wouldn't work I think
Exactly.
Threatmeters are "the easy way out". Ofc, unless an entire raid plays with a certain level of "gaming honor", everything which helps will be used, moraly-questionable-or-not.
Yet, at some point that can backfire. I prefer to be able to know my threat myself, at times opening my Violation and being pleased with being exactly where I thought I'd be in the threat.
Now if someone who has no idea of that is one day without his Threatmeter (say Threat gets randomized between certain boundaries, 50%-150%, and so there's no useful data at all anymore), they will wipe their raids. A LOT!
Yes, Nihilum does it with KTM.
Does that lower their "prowess" in my eyes? Yep, quite a ton.
Although I understand for them it's a safety net. I can't quite believe more than say 1 in a raid still needs that thing. But it's really like Decursive. Even back in the days, there were people skilled enough to do the same decursing speed ,without.
Still, most used it. Laziness ;)
I really don't think you can argue that threat meters don't allow you to ride the aggro line closer, thus doing more raid DPS. Threat meters are a tool and they help, so despite the fact that they're not built into the game, I think the high-horse attitude some people have towards them is a little extreme.
How does that explain players in Nihilum have KLH open when defeating bosses for the first time? Just to bloat their UI or what?
why do they have damagemeters open ? does that meen that it's needed ?
Good question! Why do they have a UI? Why do they have the monitor on at all? Probably because it makes it easier to play... but it's not needed. I've heard blind people play WoW.
[quote=ThePopeRope ]
I have Violation with Threat, but seriously it's closed. Nearly 100% of the time, it's just not opened. I know my threat, and at times I actually think "Hrm... are you close now or not?". It's rare, but then I open the threatmeter, take a look, and close it again.
So, you are either a tank, a healer....or a bad dps'er ;p
As a tank i rarely look at threatmeters, i concentrate on putting out as much threat as possible, as a healer...you just don't need it and as a dps class....if you aren't riding the line quite abit (which you can't really know without a dps/threat meter) then you just aren't doing as much dps as you could/should be.
The thing is though, as a Healer, I have to react to what's happening. As a Tank, I have to get a lot of buttons under control, and react to the environment a lot, too
As a ranged DPS, life is utterly boring unless I try to do my threat myself. Seriously. It's like, just spampress the button until you're close, slack off a bit, rinse and repeat. :/
So I kinda figured... hrm... maybe DPSing is more involved if I don't know my threat. And yep, it is :)
May I respectfully request that the discussion on the philosophy of threat meters be taken out of this thread? I'd like to keep it on track for suggestions and error reports.
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Omen-2.1r42254\OmenThreatBar.lua:171: in function `CreateBar'
Omen-2.1r42254\OmenDisplay.lua:307: in function <Interface\AddOns\Omen\OmenDisplay.lua:304>
---
Happens when i try to drag a bar off of omen.
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Curse PremiumMake sure folks are up to date; I did make one fix to global threat wipes yesterday. If it still isn't wiping global (ie, heal) threat, then please let me know and I'll investigate further.
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i hate to say it but if a ThreatMeeter is making or braking the raid ...
then i would believe you have "Bigger Fish to Fry"
Thanks!
Kendra using 42277 enGB
Then you don't know some of those bosses out there
Critting on keal'thas for 9k has a high chance of overagro..so agro meters must be absolutely correct to "Ride the line"
we cleared ssc and tempestkeep.. so its going fine i'd say...
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Curse PremiumIf you can, have fangor update to 42065 or later; I made a fix that might address the problem.
I'm going to see if I can manage to replicate this one, though.
They were doing Nightbane today and during the first 25% apparently DPSers who were way below the tank's threat were pulling aggro.
I wasn't there to witness it and I'm trying to get them to keep it so we can test it on a real boss in a real instance but I'm wondering if you could figure out why this would be happening?
They also claim that they completely disabled KTM (read: not just closing its GUI)
Also, I don't know what version of Omen they're using but at the earliest it would be from yesterday(June 29th) around 12:00 PM EST
Great job, Antiarc and Threat team!
Still, you shouldn't need a Threatmeter.
Consider this:
There is no (nothing, not at all) threat-feedback in WoW except the damage/healing you do and your own judgement on how much threat that produces.
On the contrary, nearly all other addons, from raidframes over damagemeters to hud-addons, just re-use existing information, re-format it, and present it differently.
Threatmeters are a big exception. They "generate" information, from educated guesses about how abilities work on the threatlists of mobs.
It is comparable to using an external FAQ compared to a game-internal hint-function. A good example here would be Simon the Sorcerer IV.
It has 3 hint-levels for quests. The first is a general hint where to look, the second what to look for the, third is what specifically you have to do.
Yet - those are ingame hints. Enough people (granted, me included at the second time on that troll bridge :/ ) still look in an external Walkthrough since they can't figure out for themselves even with the specific knowledge of what to do, how to do it.
Threatmeters serve a similar role. You got the damage right on your screen. You played with the tank for ages. Is a bar in KTM or Omen really all you know about how the tank's attacks and your spells work?
I have Violation with Threat, but seriously it's closed. Nearly 100% of the time, it's just not opened. I know my threat, and at times I actually think "Hrm... are you close now or not?". It's rare, but then I open the threatmeter, take a look, and close it again.
Or let me put it this way:
If you need a Threatmeter, you got bigger problems, you need to (forgive the stereotypical wording) l2p. If you just use a Threatmeter, then that's all fine, and a good way to enhance your combat-prowess.
Its like the days of decursive, just because it makes encounters easier doesn't make it right, imo it cheapens the raiding experience.
Threatmeters are "the easy way out". Ofc, unless an entire raid plays with a certain level of "gaming honor", everything which helps will be used, moraly-questionable-or-not.
Yet, at some point that can backfire. I prefer to be able to know my threat myself, at times opening my Violation and being pleased with being exactly where I thought I'd be in the threat.
Now if someone who has no idea of that is one day without his Threatmeter (say Threat gets randomized between certain boundaries, 50%-150%, and so there's no useful data at all anymore), they will wipe their raids. A LOT!
Yes, Nihilum does it with KTM.
Does that lower their "prowess" in my eyes? Yep, quite a ton.
Although I understand for them it's a safety net. I can't quite believe more than say 1 in a raid still needs that thing. But it's really like Decursive. Even back in the days, there were people skilled enough to do the same decursing speed ,without.
Still, most used it. Laziness ;)
I really don't think you can argue that threat meters don't allow you to ride the aggro line closer, thus doing more raid DPS. Threat meters are a tool and they help, so despite the fact that they're not built into the game, I think the high-horse attitude some people have towards them is a little extreme.
why do they have damagemeters open ? does that meen that it's needed ?
Good question! Why do they have a UI? Why do they have the monitor on at all? Probably because it makes it easier to play... but it's not needed. I've heard blind people play WoW.
So, you are either a tank, a healer....or a bad dps'er ;p
As a tank i rarely look at threatmeters, i concentrate on putting out as much threat as possible, as a healer...you just don't need it and as a dps class....if you aren't riding the line quite abit (which you can't really know without a dps/threat meter) then you just aren't doing as much dps as you could/should be.
As a ranged DPS, life is utterly boring unless I try to do my threat myself. Seriously. It's like, just spampress the button until you're close, slack off a bit, rinse and repeat. :/
So I kinda figured... hrm... maybe DPSing is more involved if I don't know my threat. And yep, it is :)
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