Were any other combat log related mods working? SCT/MSBT for example? I've noticed last patch and also this patch that the combat log randomly stops working, when this happens Recount won't log any data.
Were any other combat log related mods working? SCT/MSBT for example? I've noticed last patch and also this patch that the combat log randomly stops working, when this happens Recount won't log any data.
This happens to me occasionally as well. Relogging usually fixes it.
Were any other combat log related mods working? SCT/MSBT for example? I've noticed last patch and also this patch that the combat log randomly stops working, when this happens Recount won't log any data.
This has been happening on occasions ever since i first stepped foot into Sartharion last year, so it's a bug that's been in game for quite a while.
I am seeing an increased volume of reports of partial or no recording since patch 3.2.2 which is unusual. I'm inclined to think that there is an added problem with the combat-log. If anybody can pin this down it'd be appreciated. Best evidence is /combatlog and analysis by an offline meter. If it also shows clearly missing data then for some reason the combatlog now skips more frequently when in the past that certainly was a fairly rare thing.
I'll be bumping a version once I get a check that Onyxia's ID is unchanged.
This time Recount only refused to work while clearing the trash mobs. When starting to beat down the old Lady, it started to work as intended again (what it didn't do couple of days ago when doing 25 man version as reported).
I couldn't locate a RecountGuessedAbsorbs thread so ill post here.
It seems that RecountGuessedAbsorbs doesn't count Savage Defence (passive feral ability) as an absorb.
I'm not sure I understand. RecountGuessedAbsorbs implicitly honors talents because it is based on the combatlog. That means that talent-based modifications are already factored in. It does not scan talents though but that really isn't worth the effort because they only factor for a few very special spells and have their own issues/inaccuracies.
I'm not sure I understand. RecountGuessedAbsorbs implicitly honors talents because it is based on the combatlog. That means that talent-based modifications are already factored in. It does not scan talents though but that really isn't worth the effort because they only factor for a few very special spells and have their own issues/inaccuracies.
This ability isn't a talent though, its a learned ability, and i did take a look at RecountGuessedAbsorbs, but i didn't notice any referance to Savage Defence or its id (62606) in the latest available release (3.1c stable).
It's Cryect's original design. I don't ever really use it but it's also minimal overhead (window isn't created until it's used, handling is basically one if and the call to GetNetStats, so that's minimal in terms of code size.
It's downstream traffic bandwidth. If your client sends a lot for some reason you'll see peaks. Possibly useful to understand bursty outgoing traffic (if it even exists).
This ability isn't a talent though, its a learned ability, and i did take a look at RecountGuessedAbsorbs, but i didn't notice any referance to Savage Defence or its id (62606) in the latest available release (3.1c stable).
This line is correct and is working in a Recount Module that calculates the defensive performances and is tested for months (as a feral tank). In fact I use the line
[62606] = 60, -- Savage Defense
but that's just because I didn't understand the meaning of the value ;)
Sorry for the double post - i just read along the thread and saw the discussion about merging heals + absorbs etc.. It's quite interesting for me because a few months ago I was very frustrated and deeply felt the need for some better performance values for the one's that aren't able or willing to think about the game in a certain depth.
I found out, that especcially Recount had an outrageous impact on the behaviour of maybe <insert really huge number> of WoW players. Since BC/WotlK the most players have really become very good and the game itself became more forgiving. The goal used to be to defeat the instance. Today you really need bad luck to even fail a ToC raid with randoms. There have been new goals established, and especcially for Damage Dealers it is simply the Damage Done tab. And on a certain level of brainlag this basicly talented players turn into failbots.
For DPS values are taken for granted, even clever raidleaders tend to judge healers by HPS. In the end I personally was very frustrated by people just doing really silly things to be on the top of the meter, especcially as a tank or healer.
In my personal opinion, Recount has to take responsibility a little bit and i thought about how we could add better numbers, better goals. So i created different prototypes of a summary which honors damage, healing, absorbs, interrupts, buffs, defensive talents, defensive spells, reduction + mitigation, rezzes. And subtracts damage taken, cc-break, dying, things like that. I wanted a "world" where a feral can b-rezz and a rogue could kick somebody without beeing punished or having a bad feeling about it. Where a clever dispel is better than a CoH and leaving the sheep a sheep more worth than a wirlwind.
Of course, Recount numbers of all of this aren't anywhere near perfection - but I think everything is better from this point of view than looking just at the DPS number. The prototype just adds up real Recount numbers (that you still can look for) and maybe multiplies (which means weights) a bit. I just needed to create something i call RecountDefense (Armor, Resistances, -% Damage Talents / Spells etc) and added GuessedAbsorbs, so you have all the numbers. If you like it, i could add it up here after we have solved two major technical problems.
Sounds interesting, to say the least. Just curious for tanks, how you'd handle that "subtract damage taken" being a... penalty, for lack of a better word? Makes sense for DPS to be judged in that regard if they're, say, pulling aggro and getting face-smashed, but as a tank, that's part of our job (getting face-smashed). :P
That's what the module RecountDefense is for. Here you get your positive points for reducing damage. The module is stand-alone properly working to tell something about your defensive performance (equip, CDs usage etc) as a tank as well as a little reward for a - let's say DD which uses defensive CDs in case of heavy AoE damage or spends talent points in damage reduction.
I have to admit that i have the most problems related to this module. A sensible RecountDefense minus RecountDamageTaken doesn't fit, because Tanks will hugely outscale everything else by getting hit by really big numbers. Based on a weight where you say: 1 Damage = 2 Healing and 1 Damage avoided = 1 Healing you won't even see anybody else than the tanks.
I think that's fine for an external mode but I would never add this to the core for the very simple reason that it has the same problems as the definition of DPS/HPS except much worse.
There is no one best unified formula to describe raid performance. Hence there is indefinite discussion to be had how to tweak any such formula and anybody who implements this is either misleading folks that one can come up with a sensible formula or is in for a maintenance hell...
How much damage done or healing is a kick worth? It really depends on the encounter.
Truth be told, Recount is meant to display what is going on in a battle but it is not meant to make good judgment. People have to do that. If people do not exercise good judgment no amount of trying to come up with an automated formula to replace it will be successful.
If you get kicked from raid or a raid group because of any data/ranking in Recount, then your raid group is silly. If you get kicked because you repeatedly fail to deliver a vital kick or fail to move out of fire or fail to execute sound rotations etc, then their judgment is much more sound.
By the way I wouldn't add such things in Recount, too. It's also a good decision to exclude Guessed Absorbs and not to merge heal and shield. That's a job for external modules which can say "take me, like me or leave me".
... even clever raidleaders tend to judge healers by HPS. [...] In my personal opinion, Recount has to take responsibility a little bit [...] I wanted a "world" where a feral can b-rezz and a rogue could kick somebody without beeing punished or having a bad feeling about it. Where a clever dispel is better than a CoH and leaving the sheep a sheep more worth than a wirlwind.
1. HPS is even more meaningless than DPS. Let's say you just finished a one-tank fight with no adds. Let's say your tank got lucky with avoidance. Your healers all have a lower HPS than they did on the last fight with three tanks and massive raid-wide AoE. Does this mean your healers were slacking? The only healing metrics which are in any way meaningful are an individual healer's ratio of effective healing to overhealing (if it's consistently very low, the healer is probably not playing as well as he should) and percent of total healing done (if one guy is consistently last and does half the healing of the next guy up, he's probably not playing as well as he should). The actual amount of healing done is unimportant, simply due to the nature of healing.
2. Any feral druid / rogue / priest / warrior who thinks that using Rebirth / using Kick / dispelling a debuff / not breaking crowd control is "being punished" is a liability to the raid, and I would vote for immediately removing him from the raid. Every damage-dealing class has abilities that don't deal damage but are critical to successfully playing that class. Every healing class has abilities that don't restore health but are critical to successfully playing that class. If you have players who believe that a bigger DPS or HPS number in Recount is more important than playing their class correctly, those players are bad at the game, and you shouldn't want to raid with them anyway. They're probably causing your wipes. The "world" you want already exists -- ask any world-class raiding guild if their feral druids refuse to trade two seconds of damage-dealing time to use Rebirth, if any of their rogues refuse to trade a GCD for a Kick, if any of their priests refuse to dispel debuffs, or if any of their warriors refuse to respect crowd control. I guarantee you the answer will be "no".
3. Recount's function is to present factual information. It is not Recount's responsibility to educate millions of players on the correct interpretations of that information. If you find yourself raiding with people who punish you for playing your class correctly, you'd probably get more out of your time investment by finding better people to play with than in trying to write a Recount module to rate player performance. Do you really need an addon to tell you if someone is a good player?
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Curse PremiumThis happens to me occasionally as well. Relogging usually fixes it.
This has been happening on occasions ever since i first stepped foot into Sartharion last year, so it's a bug that's been in game for quite a while.
I'll be bumping a version once I get a check that Onyxia's ID is unchanged.
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Curse Premiumonyxia id is the same, the old bw-azeroth module still enables and works.
This time Recount only refused to work while clearing the trash mobs. When starting to beat down the old Lady, it started to work as intended again (what it didn't do couple of days ago when doing 25 man version as reported).
Something strange is happening here... :p
This as a side-effect should update the boss id lib packaging.
Testing welcome.
It seems that RecountGuessedAbsorbs doesn't count Savage Defence (passive feral ability) as an absorb.
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Curse PremiumI've talked to zeksie, and if i understand it correctly you might improve accuracy of guessedabsorbs if you have a look at players talents.
This ability isn't a talent though, its a learned ability, and i did take a look at RecountGuessedAbsorbs, but i didn't notice any referance to Savage Defence or its id (62606) in the latest available release (3.1c stable).
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Curse Premiumhttp://www.wowwiki.com/API_GetNetStats
It's Cryect's original design. I don't ever really use it but it's also minimal overhead (window isn't created until it's used, handling is basically one if and the call to GetNetStats, so that's minimal in terms of code size.
It's downstream traffic bandwidth. If your client sends a lot for some reason you'll see peaks. Possibly useful to understand bursty outgoing traffic (if it even exists).
This line is correct and is working in a Recount Module that calculates the defensive performances and is tested for months (as a feral tank). In fact I use the line
but that's just because I didn't understand the meaning of the value ;)
I found out, that especcially Recount had an outrageous impact on the behaviour of maybe <insert really huge number> of WoW players. Since BC/WotlK the most players have really become very good and the game itself became more forgiving. The goal used to be to defeat the instance. Today you really need bad luck to even fail a ToC raid with randoms. There have been new goals established, and especcially for Damage Dealers it is simply the Damage Done tab. And on a certain level of brainlag this basicly talented players turn into failbots.
For DPS values are taken for granted, even clever raidleaders tend to judge healers by HPS. In the end I personally was very frustrated by people just doing really silly things to be on the top of the meter, especcially as a tank or healer.
In my personal opinion, Recount has to take responsibility a little bit and i thought about how we could add better numbers, better goals. So i created different prototypes of a summary which honors damage, healing, absorbs, interrupts, buffs, defensive talents, defensive spells, reduction + mitigation, rezzes. And subtracts damage taken, cc-break, dying, things like that. I wanted a "world" where a feral can b-rezz and a rogue could kick somebody without beeing punished or having a bad feeling about it. Where a clever dispel is better than a CoH and leaving the sheep a sheep more worth than a wirlwind.
Of course, Recount numbers of all of this aren't anywhere near perfection - but I think everything is better from this point of view than looking just at the DPS number. The prototype just adds up real Recount numbers (that you still can look for) and maybe multiplies (which means weights) a bit. I just needed to create something i call RecountDefense (Armor, Resistances, -% Damage Talents / Spells etc) and added GuessedAbsorbs, so you have all the numbers. If you like it, i could add it up here after we have solved two major technical problems.
I have to admit that i have the most problems related to this module. A sensible RecountDefense minus RecountDamageTaken doesn't fit, because Tanks will hugely outscale everything else by getting hit by really big numbers. Based on a weight where you say: 1 Damage = 2 Healing and 1 Damage avoided = 1 Healing you won't even see anybody else than the tanks.
There is no one best unified formula to describe raid performance. Hence there is indefinite discussion to be had how to tweak any such formula and anybody who implements this is either misleading folks that one can come up with a sensible formula or is in for a maintenance hell...
How much damage done or healing is a kick worth? It really depends on the encounter.
Truth be told, Recount is meant to display what is going on in a battle but it is not meant to make good judgment. People have to do that. If people do not exercise good judgment no amount of trying to come up with an automated formula to replace it will be successful.
If you get kicked from raid or a raid group because of any data/ranking in Recount, then your raid group is silly. If you get kicked because you repeatedly fail to deliver a vital kick or fail to move out of fire or fail to execute sound rotations etc, then their judgment is much more sound.
By the way I wouldn't add such things in Recount, too. It's also a good decision to exclude Guessed Absorbs and not to merge heal and shield. That's a job for external modules which can say "take me, like me or leave me".
1. HPS is even more meaningless than DPS. Let's say you just finished a one-tank fight with no adds. Let's say your tank got lucky with avoidance. Your healers all have a lower HPS than they did on the last fight with three tanks and massive raid-wide AoE. Does this mean your healers were slacking? The only healing metrics which are in any way meaningful are an individual healer's ratio of effective healing to overhealing (if it's consistently very low, the healer is probably not playing as well as he should) and percent of total healing done (if one guy is consistently last and does half the healing of the next guy up, he's probably not playing as well as he should). The actual amount of healing done is unimportant, simply due to the nature of healing.
2. Any feral druid / rogue / priest / warrior who thinks that using Rebirth / using Kick / dispelling a debuff / not breaking crowd control is "being punished" is a liability to the raid, and I would vote for immediately removing him from the raid. Every damage-dealing class has abilities that don't deal damage but are critical to successfully playing that class. Every healing class has abilities that don't restore health but are critical to successfully playing that class. If you have players who believe that a bigger DPS or HPS number in Recount is more important than playing their class correctly, those players are bad at the game, and you shouldn't want to raid with them anyway. They're probably causing your wipes. The "world" you want already exists -- ask any world-class raiding guild if their feral druids refuse to trade two seconds of damage-dealing time to use Rebirth, if any of their rogues refuse to trade a GCD for a Kick, if any of their priests refuse to dispel debuffs, or if any of their warriors refuse to respect crowd control. I guarantee you the answer will be "no".
3. Recount's function is to present factual information. It is not Recount's responsibility to educate millions of players on the correct interpretations of that information. If you find yourself raiding with people who punish you for playing your class correctly, you'd probably get more out of your time investment by finding better people to play with than in trying to write a Recount module to rate player performance. Do you really need an addon to tell you if someone is a good player?