We should have a running list of baddly written ace2 mods... :)
Thats like 1/4 of the repository.
I've heard that tossed about but have never seen anyone actually name a poorly-written addon. I think many of us would like to know which addons we should avoid.
We should have a running list of baddly written ace2 mods... :)
Thats like 1/4 of the repository.
I've heard that tossed about but have never seen anyone actually name a poorly-written addon. I think many of us would like to know which addons we should avoid.
Some authors would be offended to have their addons listed in a "worst of WowAce" post. :P
We should have a running list of baddly written ace2 mods... :)
Thats like 1/4 of the repository.
I've heard that tossed about but have never seen anyone actually name a poorly-written addon. I think many of us would like to know which addons we should avoid.
Some authors would be offended to have their addons listed in a "worst of WowAce" post. :P
Perhaps it would motivate them to improve it if you made your criticism in a polite way, proving a point and showing deficiencies rather than "zomg ur addon sux!!!!111", as well making yourself available to help them. (Ace2 dev team?)
Well... You also don't want to create an elitist atmosphere. The svn can be home to any addon, whether written with Ace or not, whether well-coded or not. But I'm sure that any author of any addon needing improvement does hear about it at one point or another. ;)
Well... maybe if we do not want to create an elitist atmosphere by signaling what addons are badly written, how about maybe having a "Seal of Aproval" program of some sorts...
What i mean is, a handful of knowledgeable and respected mod authors could look through some of the code of mods that are on the SVN or finalized, or some criteria (either Ace or not, we are trying to welcome everyone, right?) and then right a report card of sorts. And if the report card average value is up to a certain amount, then it could get a WoWAce seal of approval.
Report card could include some things:
Memory Efficiency
CPU Efficiency
Conventions and Standards
Documentation
Usability
Stability
Those are just off the top of my head. Something like this, i think would be very useful to the community, but i see that it would take a lot of effort as we would need to have a good number of knowledgeable members of the community to participate as to reduce the amount of bias.
I think any type of "judgment" system would simply makes things worse and further create "elitism" on this forum and others.
While all authors should strive to learn and make their code better, any judgment should come from end users, not authors. I don't care how well written a mod is code wise, if it doesn't do what the end users want in a straight forward way then all that code doesn't matter.
If there are areas for a mod to be improved, then talking with author in a constructive manner is the way to help them. Not posting up some score to be scrutinized. Most people do this for the fun of doing something they like (coding) in a game they enjoy playing. We should be encouraging that as a community, not judging them.
CKKnight is just a freaking god. Is there anything that he can't do?!?
Write a non bloated successor to Ace2
Quote from Grayhoof »
I don't care how well written a mod is code wise, if it doesn't do what the end users want in a straight forward way then all that code doesn't matter.
I think any type of "judgment" system would simply makes things worse and further create "elitism" on this forum and others.
While all authors should strive to learn and make their code better, any judgment should come from end users, not authors. I don't care how well written a mod is code wise, if it doesn't do what the end users want in a straight forward way then all that code doesn't matter.
If there are areas for a mod to be improved, then talking with author in a constructive manner is the way to help them. Not posting up some score to be scrutinized. Most people do this for the fun of doing something they like (coding) in a game they enjoy playing. We should be encouraging that as a community, not judging them.
I suppose you could be right. I suppose that it depends on who is receiving the constructive criticism and how they react to it. I thought that maybe by bringing to their attention in a constructive manner would encourage them to look at areas of the code to improve, ala peer review.
Granted, i am not a mod author, and most of the code that i write for a living is paid, i still have pride in what i write, and when a fellow peer brings it up to me about inefficiencies in my code, or downright defects i do not take it as i am being "scrutinized" or "judged" but we all have a common goal of writing good code.
I keep seeing a pattern on these forums (and others) that there is code that is badly written, but what code is badly written is more often then not left vague, so that end users never know what code is making their system crawl or the original addon author is never made aware of the problems in the first place, and therefore cannot be fixed - i am sure this is not always the case, but from an end-users perspective, it sure seems like it. - Some time after the addon is released, i stumble across a member of these forums (or others) completely trash an addon because of this or that but nothing constructive - i may(or not) stop using an addon, but never really know if the trash talking had any real substance or not.
I agree with you, ultimately, the end users will "judge" the addon by continuing to use it or not and it will always remain this way.
Would my thoughts carry any merit if the addon author were to voluntarily submit the addon to this group of "experts" and any constructive criticism be kept between the author and said group? and once certain criteria are met this same group would assign a "seal" to the addon? - or am i just so out in space?
But i am not a mod author, so i cannot try to imagine what this would be like for them and i won't pretend i know.
Wrong place for that question, but yes. There just hasn't really been anything new I've wanted to add beyond one feature I've been working on for a while. If there's something you want changed or added, just comment the WoWInterface addon page and I'll take a look at it.
Would my thoughts carry any merit if the addon author were to voluntarily submit the addon to this group of "experts" and any constructive criticism be kept between the author and said group? and once certain criteria are met this same group would assign a "seal" to the addon? - or am i just so out in space?
By doing that, you would effectively create an 'elite' class: the people who get to 'approve' addons, and the people who have addons that have been approved.
it's sad how much venom some folks have shown on these and other forums. clearly there is some smuggery afoot which has been hurting the community. hopefully the atmosphere will change. there is no need for elitism. i agree 100% that an addons author is way more important than what library was used to make it. libraries aren't without value though. at the end of the day different users have different needs and pure speed is not always the trump card.
some of the ace2 versions of perfectly good non-ace addons are still worthwhile. for instance, itemrack is arguably the best addon of its kind but i prefer to use closetgnome because of personal preference in user interface. i use whatever addons work best for my needs be they ace addons or not. i admit that i jokingly tell my guildies stuff like "if it's not ace it's crap" but they know i am just kidding around.
sometimes i take a weekend and go through the ace repository to see what i can do with purely ace addons, but that is purely to see what the community has been up to. sometimes i find gems which i switch to. other times i go right back to the non-ace addons. over time i have developed a preference for certain authors.
to get back to the spirit of the original post a bit, i use quite a few of ckknight's addons and have high regard for his work in the community. i also have high regard for the work of many other devs in the ace community such as ammo, rabbit, tekkub, neriak, nymbia, andreasg, claidhaire, sylvanaar, maia, turan, kaelten, just to name a few off the top of my head.
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I challenge ck to chew my food for me.
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Curse Premiumthat one is eazy , i think you can set the share chl to something cusom and set the bcast options. then just announce it on ur realm fourms.
I've heard that tossed about but have never seen anyone actually name a poorly-written addon. I think many of us would like to know which addons we should avoid.
Some authors would be offended to have their addons listed in a "worst of WowAce" post. :P
Perhaps it would motivate them to improve it if you made your criticism in a polite way, proving a point and showing deficiencies rather than "zomg ur addon sux!!!!111", as well making yourself available to help them. (Ace2 dev team?)
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Curse PremiumPerfect name for the thread...
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Forum ModeratorHahahah, you win.
What i mean is, a handful of knowledgeable and respected mod authors could look through some of the code of mods that are on the SVN or finalized, or some criteria (either Ace or not, we are trying to welcome everyone, right?) and then right a report card of sorts. And if the report card average value is up to a certain amount, then it could get a WoWAce seal of approval.
Report card could include some things:
Those are just off the top of my head. Something like this, i think would be very useful to the community, but i see that it would take a lot of effort as we would need to have a good number of knowledgeable members of the community to participate as to reduce the amount of bias.
Anyway, just a thought.
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Curse PremiumWhile all authors should strive to learn and make their code better, any judgment should come from end users, not authors. I don't care how well written a mod is code wise, if it doesn't do what the end users want in a straight forward way then all that code doesn't matter.
If there are areas for a mod to be improved, then talking with author in a constructive manner is the way to help them. Not posting up some score to be scrutinized. Most people do this for the fun of doing something they like (coding) in a game they enjoy playing. We should be encouraging that as a community, not judging them.
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Curse PremiumWrite a non bloated successor to Ace2
True
I suppose you could be right. I suppose that it depends on who is receiving the constructive criticism and how they react to it. I thought that maybe by bringing to their attention in a constructive manner would encourage them to look at areas of the code to improve, ala peer review.
Granted, i am not a mod author, and most of the code that i write for a living is paid, i still have pride in what i write, and when a fellow peer brings it up to me about inefficiencies in my code, or downright defects i do not take it as i am being "scrutinized" or "judged" but we all have a common goal of writing good code.
I keep seeing a pattern on these forums (and others) that there is code that is badly written, but what code is badly written is more often then not left vague, so that end users never know what code is making their system crawl or the original addon author is never made aware of the problems in the first place, and therefore cannot be fixed - i am sure this is not always the case, but from an end-users perspective, it sure seems like it. - Some time after the addon is released, i stumble across a member of these forums (or others) completely trash an addon because of this or that but nothing constructive - i may(or not) stop using an addon, but never really know if the trash talking had any real substance or not.
I agree with you, ultimately, the end users will "judge" the addon by continuing to use it or not and it will always remain this way.
Would my thoughts carry any merit if the addon author were to voluntarily submit the addon to this group of "experts" and any constructive criticism be kept between the author and said group? and once certain criteria are met this same group would assign a "seal" to the addon? - or am i just so out in space?
But i am not a mod author, so i cannot try to imagine what this would be like for them and i won't pretend i know.
Wrong place for that question, but yes. There just hasn't really been anything new I've wanted to add beyond one feature I've been working on for a while. If there's something you want changed or added, just comment the WoWInterface addon page and I'll take a look at it.
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Curse PremiumBy doing that, you would effectively create an 'elite' class: the people who get to 'approve' addons, and the people who have addons that have been approved.
some of the ace2 versions of perfectly good non-ace addons are still worthwhile. for instance, itemrack is arguably the best addon of its kind but i prefer to use closetgnome because of personal preference in user interface. i use whatever addons work best for my needs be they ace addons or not. i admit that i jokingly tell my guildies stuff like "if it's not ace it's crap" but they know i am just kidding around.
sometimes i take a weekend and go through the ace repository to see what i can do with purely ace addons, but that is purely to see what the community has been up to. sometimes i find gems which i switch to. other times i go right back to the non-ace addons. over time i have developed a preference for certain authors.
to get back to the spirit of the original post a bit, i use quite a few of ckknight's addons and have high regard for his work in the community. i also have high regard for the work of many other devs in the ace community such as ammo, rabbit, tekkub, neriak, nymbia, andreasg, claidhaire, sylvanaar, maia, turan, kaelten, just to name a few off the top of my head.