The GUI is amazingly intuitive, cladhaire! Congratulations on such a great piece of work!
Now, if I can get an MG2 plugin...I tried looking at the other plugins as models to see if I could just do a copy/paste job but I'm just that clueless.
The GUI is amazingly intuitive, cladhaire! Congratulations on such a great piece of work!
Now, if I can get an MG2 plugin...I tried looking at the other plugins as models to see if I could just do a copy/paste job but I'm just that clueless.
The GUI is amazingly intuitive, cladhaire! Congratulations on such a great piece of work!
Now, if I can get an MG2 plugin...I tried looking at the other plugins as models to see if I could just do a copy/paste job but I'm just that clueless.
I actually used it with MG2 because I forgot there was no plug in for it (The version I had at the time) when I loaded the game to try this out after work.
It worke completely with out the plug in. :)
But I will get the new svn version for the fix with squishy.
Ooooh, Clique looks *awesome*! I can't wait for the AceHeal plugin so I can try it out for real. Sorry for spamming the thread with useless appraise :)
Ooooh, Clique looks *awesome*! I can't wait for the AceHeal plugin so I can try it out for real. Sorry for spamming the thread with useless appraise :)
Instead of waiting you could try to use the "/script AceHeal:<command>" as a custom click to get AceHeals mana conservation like you can do with watchdog.
I think it works... I tried it last night during the brief bit i got online to check AH Mail before bed. However I was really tired and could of forgotten to unbind the click casting setup in aceheal.
That's exactly what I did, however I removed all the gui / click-casting elements from AceHeal and stripped it down to just the healing functions. It's not a perfect solution (hell, its not even really a good solution) but it will work for now.
Not Clique related, but the Ace2 SVN externals for PerfectTooltip are causing SVN update errors. All the Ace2 alpha files and directories were renamed.
cladhaire, I have fought and fought your aversion to any logic in spell casting but I have also found myself using the Heal logic of AH more and more. I however can see doing without it as most healing classes (I don't know nor care about shamans) settle on 2-3 spells for raiding. A fast spell, a large heal and a HOT if possible. With 5 button mice and multiple combinations, I can see how having a function that cast a spell based on health of the unit is rather lazy.
That being said, rank logic is something I would say is not lazy but efficient. For example, if a unit is deficient by say 500 HP, why should I cast the highest rank of Flash heal that will over heal for up to 1500? Now the argument is well by the time the spell lands the calculated rank is either too low or too high for the target. I can tell you that from using the logic functions in AceHeal that is not always the case. If I go to heal a unit at 80% and only use a lower rank spell, it will top of the unit enough to keep him or her going. Also if I cast at 20%, that unit is most likely being beat on to a point where they will fluctuate wildly in health so the max rank I am casting may go to waste but from experience it will still heal the majority of the health deficit.
My point is that while spell selection is not necessary and does promote lazy healing, spell rank selection eliminates the human error factor that often kills others in raids.
Please ensure a ranking system is incorporated in this wonderful mod. I too am an AceHeal junkie and this mod does look like the logical replacement.
One other crucial adoption is the use of decursive in click casting. Having to bind 2-4 decursive level spell wastes our binds. ;)
That's exactly what I did, however I removed all the gui / click-casting elements from AceHeal and stripped it down to just the healing functions. It's not a perfect solution (hell, its not even really a good solution) but it will work for now.
That being said, rank logic is something I would say is not lazy but efficient. For example, if a unit is deficient by say 500 HP, why should I cast the highest rank of Flash heal that will over heal for up to 1500? Now the argument is well by the time the spell lands the calculated rank is either too low or too high for the target. I can tell you that from using the logic functions in AceHeal that is not always the case. If I go to heal a unit at 80% and only use a lower rank spell, it will top of the unit enough to keep him or her going. Also if I cast at 20%, that unit is most likely being beat on to a point where they will fluctuate wildly in health so the max rank I am casting may go to waste but from experience it will still heal the majority of the health deficit.
You are willing to take this risk. I am not. I am in an AQ40/BWL guild (not Naxx, we're not that good) and as mail healer, there are times when using "heal selection logic" just doesn't cut it. I have said time and time again, the ONLY time heal rank selection has a place in a game that plays like this is in 5-man, 10-man instances, and when the target isn't in combat. That's it. Anyone who tries to convinec me otherwise will likely fail. If you are healing multiple targets in a 40-man raid setting, you should not be using heal rank selection-- you should knwo exactly what you're casting every single time, and know how and where that will land.
I keep two 1000 hp heals (Flash, and Heal Rank 3), two 2000hp heals, and a 3000+hp heal bound in WatchDog. I know I'm not every single healer, which is why I'm including heal selection logic (via a plugin) in Clique. I will not ever under any circumstance allow a mana conservation (A mod that decides when to cancel your spells) in my mods. I think that is 100% outside the scope of the UI and should not be done.
My point is that while spell selection is not necessary and does promote lazy healing, spell rank selection eliminates the human error factor that often kills others in raids.
If you trust the computer to make better decisions than you do, then you have more problems to worry about than if Clique includes heal selection =)
One other crucial adoption is the use of decursive in click casting. Having to bind 2-4 decursive level spell wastes our binds
This has always existed in WatchDog, and will exist in Clique.
"there are times when using "heal selection logic" just doesn't cut it. " And there are times when it does.
I actually bind a mouse click to Flash Heal, heal rank 3 and Greater Heal for emergency healing, I refuse to use the functions for that. I have one for Ace Heal's "Heal" function that I use when it is not an emergency. I don't want to only cast the highest rank spell each time in those situations (where the target is not losing massive health). The only reason I use the heal function is for spell rank selection and NOT spell selection, which I don't like.
As for trusting the computer, yes I do, this is the exact thing programming logic and computer's do best. I am not trusting the "computer" to heal for me but instead to give the option to simplify my task. It comes down to work smarter not harder.
I really do not understand this aversion to heal rank logic. I am on your side against mana conservation "spell stop" functions and am not a fan of spell selection ones either. Rank selection however is just plain smart and efficient.
Why not compromise and make these options without being an outspoken critic? People who want to be purists can use what you envision and people who would rather not have to do that many tasks just to heal a player without worrying about running out of mana can do that.
I am not asking for mana conservation or having the program pick the best spell for me (heal, greater heal, lesser heal, etc) just that I don't have to cast the highest rank of flash heal if the person only needs 1/4 of what it heals for. IMHO this should have been built into wow from day one, we waste so much having to map various spell ranks.
Sorry for breaking in some converstation but i got some bug reports.
I'm using Perl Classic. Everything works, well at least the clickcasting.
Exept.. I'm unable to move the frames when unlocked I can't click on the target of target frame to select the person etc etc
I just bound some spells to shift click so that should not interfer imo.
Sorry for breaking in some converstation but i got some bug reports.
I'm using Perl Classic. Everything works, well at least the clickcasting.
Exept.. I'm unable to move the frames when unlocked I can't click on the target of target frame to select the person etc etc
I just bound some spells to shift click so that should not interfer imo.
As for trusting the computer, yes I do, this is the exact thing programming logic and computer's do best. I am not trusting the "computer" to heal for me but instead to give the option to simplify my task. It comes down to work smarter not harder.
I really do not understand this aversion to heal rank logic. I am on your side against mana conservation "spell stop" functions and am not a fan of spell selection ones either. Rank selection however is just plain smart and efficient.
Why not compromise and make these options without being an outspoken critic? People who want to be purists can use what you envision and people who would rather not have to do that many tasks just to heal a player without worrying about running out of mana can do that.
First off, I have said at least four times that heal logic will be included. It will be available via a plugin distributed with Clique. Just like any other plugin those who don't want it can simply delete it from their distribution. That's why it won't be included in the core logic. Clique is a click-casting addon, full-stop. If you want heal logic, you use the plugin. That's not just for heal logic, its for anythign that isn't click-casting.
Second, if you can't heal without the functions and run out of mana then you aren't a good healer. I'm an asshole, but I'm also a VERY good priest and druid, so I know a bit about healing. I also have a rogue, so I understand what it feels like to be healed frequently =). I understand the convenience of the functions, and like I said-- I can see using them in 5-10 man raid instances and when out of combat. No argument from me whatsoever.
I am more than open to further debate and discussion on this topic, either on the forums of via email-- but my stance is the following:
A heal logic addon that is smart enough to know the current rate of change of someone's hit points, and thus what rank to select based on more criteria than what the current defecit; making it able to be viable in a full-scale emergency raid situation will have too much overhead and will not be distributed with my addon. I will not have a core plugin that sits and watches the combat log to determine combat state and rate of hit point change (which is the ONLY way to get real accurate heal selection). Instead I will be working with the current authors of AceHeal and using other code that is available to develop a plugin that provides smarter-than-dumb heal rank selection. It will likely take +healing gear into account, and the COMBAT STATE of the unit (using UnitAffectingCombat()) and perhaps some other tricksy things. It will let you call heal functions for the major type of spells (Efficient, Instant, Emergency.) Again, this is a CLICK-CASTING addon, and that's all it will ever be. If plugins are written to extend the functionality, that's great-- but I reserve ALL rights to not include those plugins in my base distribution. I have certain standards of gameplay, and I will not purposely enable the masses with something I feel is against the spirit of the game
=)
Now, if I can get an MG2 plugin...I tried looking at the other plugins as models to see if I could just do a copy/paste job but I'm just that clueless.
MG2 plugins is on the svn, http://svn.wowace.com/root/trunk/Clique/Plugins
You'll need Plugins.xml and the MG2 plugin
I actually used it with MG2 because I forgot there was no plug in for it (The version I had at the time) when I loaded the game to try this out after work.
It worke completely with out the plug in. :)
But I will get the new svn version for the fix with squishy.
Great Job!!
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Curse PremiumInstead of waiting you could try to use the "/script AceHeal:<command>" as a custom click to get AceHeals mana conservation like you can do with watchdog.
I think it works... I tried it last night during the brief bit i got online to check AH Mail before bed. However I was really tired and could of forgotten to unbind the click casting setup in aceheal.
http://www.wowace.com/forums/index.php/topic,403.msg28247.html#msg28247
That being said, rank logic is something I would say is not lazy but efficient. For example, if a unit is deficient by say 500 HP, why should I cast the highest rank of Flash heal that will over heal for up to 1500? Now the argument is well by the time the spell lands the calculated rank is either too low or too high for the target. I can tell you that from using the logic functions in AceHeal that is not always the case. If I go to heal a unit at 80% and only use a lower rank spell, it will top of the unit enough to keep him or her going. Also if I cast at 20%, that unit is most likely being beat on to a point where they will fluctuate wildly in health so the max rank I am casting may go to waste but from experience it will still heal the majority of the health deficit.
My point is that while spell selection is not necessary and does promote lazy healing, spell rank selection eliminates the human error factor that often kills others in raids.
Please ensure a ranking system is incorporated in this wonderful mod. I too am an AceHeal junkie and this mod does look like the logical replacement.
One other crucial adoption is the use of decursive in click casting. Having to bind 2-4 decursive level spell wastes our binds. ;)
Thanks will check it out tonight.
You are willing to take this risk. I am not. I am in an AQ40/BWL guild (not Naxx, we're not that good) and as mail healer, there are times when using "heal selection logic" just doesn't cut it. I have said time and time again, the ONLY time heal rank selection has a place in a game that plays like this is in 5-man, 10-man instances, and when the target isn't in combat. That's it. Anyone who tries to convinec me otherwise will likely fail. If you are healing multiple targets in a 40-man raid setting, you should not be using heal rank selection-- you should knwo exactly what you're casting every single time, and know how and where that will land.
I keep two 1000 hp heals (Flash, and Heal Rank 3), two 2000hp heals, and a 3000+hp heal bound in WatchDog. I know I'm not every single healer, which is why I'm including heal selection logic (via a plugin) in Clique. I will not ever under any circumstance allow a mana conservation (A mod that decides when to cancel your spells) in my mods. I think that is 100% outside the scope of the UI and should not be done.
If you trust the computer to make better decisions than you do, then you have more problems to worry about than if Clique includes heal selection =)
This has always existed in WatchDog, and will exist in Clique.
I actually bind a mouse click to Flash Heal, heal rank 3 and Greater Heal for emergency healing, I refuse to use the functions for that. I have one for Ace Heal's "Heal" function that I use when it is not an emergency. I don't want to only cast the highest rank spell each time in those situations (where the target is not losing massive health). The only reason I use the heal function is for spell rank selection and NOT spell selection, which I don't like.
As for trusting the computer, yes I do, this is the exact thing programming logic and computer's do best. I am not trusting the "computer" to heal for me but instead to give the option to simplify my task. It comes down to work smarter not harder.
I really do not understand this aversion to heal rank logic. I am on your side against mana conservation "spell stop" functions and am not a fan of spell selection ones either. Rank selection however is just plain smart and efficient.
Why not compromise and make these options without being an outspoken critic? People who want to be purists can use what you envision and people who would rather not have to do that many tasks just to heal a player without worrying about running out of mana can do that.
I am not asking for mana conservation or having the program pick the best spell for me (heal, greater heal, lesser heal, etc) just that I don't have to cast the highest rank of flash heal if the person only needs 1/4 of what it heals for. IMHO this should have been built into wow from day one, we waste so much having to map various spell ranks.
I'm using Perl Classic. Everything works, well at least the clickcasting.
Exept.. I'm unable to move the frames when unlocked I can't click on the target of target frame to select the person etc etc
I just bound some spells to shift click so that should not interfer imo.
Thanks, can you post a bug at my portal at http://cladhaire.wowinterface.com
First off, I have said at least four times that heal logic will be included. It will be available via a plugin distributed with Clique. Just like any other plugin those who don't want it can simply delete it from their distribution. That's why it won't be included in the core logic. Clique is a click-casting addon, full-stop. If you want heal logic, you use the plugin. That's not just for heal logic, its for anythign that isn't click-casting.
Second, if you can't heal without the functions and run out of mana then you aren't a good healer. I'm an asshole, but I'm also a VERY good priest and druid, so I know a bit about healing. I also have a rogue, so I understand what it feels like to be healed frequently =). I understand the convenience of the functions, and like I said-- I can see using them in 5-10 man raid instances and when out of combat. No argument from me whatsoever.
I am more than open to further debate and discussion on this topic, either on the forums of via email-- but my stance is the following:
A heal logic addon that is smart enough to know the current rate of change of someone's hit points, and thus what rank to select based on more criteria than what the current defecit; making it able to be viable in a full-scale emergency raid situation will have too much overhead and will not be distributed with my addon. I will not have a core plugin that sits and watches the combat log to determine combat state and rate of hit point change (which is the ONLY way to get real accurate heal selection). Instead I will be working with the current authors of AceHeal and using other code that is available to develop a plugin that provides smarter-than-dumb heal rank selection. It will likely take +healing gear into account, and the COMBAT STATE of the unit (using UnitAffectingCombat()) and perhaps some other tricksy things. It will let you call heal functions for the major type of spells (Efficient, Instant, Emergency.) Again, this is a CLICK-CASTING addon, and that's all it will ever be. If plugins are written to extend the functionality, that's great-- but I reserve ALL rights to not include those plugins in my base distribution. I have certain standards of gameplay, and I will not purposely enable the masses with something I feel is against the spirit of the game
Sorry :$ I could have known