Without the calculator, though, I don't find your version too useful. The main use of TankPoints of myself and many (many) other people is for comparisons of different equipment at a particular level & quality prior to equipping. The calculator facilitates that. Otherwise you just get TankPoints as per what you are currently wearing. Much, much more limited.
Advantages to having the calculator include: comparing something at the auction house vs. what you currently have so you know whether its worth it to buy it or not. Comparing something in your bank vs. a drop you find. Comparing a raid find vs. a current one so you know whether its worth it to spend your DKP points or not. Comparing a quest reward vs. what you currently are wearing so you know if its worth the time to complete the quest. Comparing a friend's equipment to your own. As well as theoretical comparisons (how much more stamina on that hat will reach a certain TankPoints level?, etc). And on and on and on.
And a calculator is more flexible than even having a tooltip hook like HealPoints (as mentioned by others in this thread) has. Because you can compare items without having to actually link them, as well as do the theoretical calculations.
The other thing: how are you calculating shield blocks for damage mitigation (as you state in your description here) into your TankPoints values? The author of the old TankPoints did not add block values into his mod for the following reason: "Note: Block is a more complicated variable that depends on how hard and how often a mob hits and personal skills, thus is not considered in this benchmark." Your crushing blow mitigation calculations appear pretty clear, but not plain damage mitigation.
Nice work so far. Hope you consider adding a calculator as the old TankPoints has.
I still like the idea of tooltip hooking like healpoints and I believe that it would make this version truly standout. I use the healpoints tooltip feature to decide if a piece of gear is really an upgrade.
ToolTip hooking like HealPoints would be awsome :)
Secondly some suggestions/requests:
Could you please please add 'Say' to the 'Calls to Channel'?
Add ability to customize the ShoutOuts?
Add Lifegiving Gem to Calls?
tyvm for bringing this AddOn back in such a handy format :)
Apologies to those I replied to, saying I would add various ideas and code into this mode in the next week. Have had insane time with real life work, meaning not so much WoW time (always a bad thing). I'm still supporting and developing this add-on and will get an update out as soon as possible.
The calculation to include blocking is a VERY rough approximation as the usefulness of block dramatically varies from fight to fight. For the sake of the maths here, it was assumed that the boss attacks with speed 1.0 for approx 1500 damage on the tank.
My main goal was to find a workable solution for integrating block into tank points. Although it is a complex subject, yes, I felt it was utterly wrong to just ignore such an important part of tanking.
Obviously, with the way I calculate it, it undervalues shield block if you are fighting against stuff that doesn't hit as hard or as often. For an extreme example if you have 30% block and 200 block value and are fighting something with that hits for 200 damage, every 3 seconds, then you'll have 100% mitigation with shield block ability. Similarly, if you're fighting something like Patchwerk, it overvalues shield block.
There is a case for reducing the scale on the numbers slightly though to 1.5 and about 1200, so will think on that.
Apologies to those I replied to, saying I would add various ideas and code into this mode in the next week. Have had insane time with real life work, meaning not so much WoW time (always a bad thing). I'm still supporting and developing this add-on and will get an update out as soon as possible.
The calculation to include blocking is a VERY rough approximation as the usefulness of block dramatically varies from fight to fight. For the sake of the maths here, it was assumed that the boss attacks with speed 1.0 for approx 1500 damage on the tank.
My main goal was to find a workable solution for integrating block into tank points. Although it is a complex subject, yes, I felt it was utterly wrong to just ignore such an important part of tanking.
Obviously, with the way I calculate it, it undervalues shield block if you are fighting against stuff that doesn't hit as hard or as often. For an extreme example if you have 30% block and 200 block value and are fighting something with that hits for 200 damage, every 3 seconds, then you'll have 100% mitigation with shield block ability. Similarly, if you're fighting something like Patchwerk, it overvalues shield block.
There is a case for reducing the scale on the numbers slightly though to 1.5 and about 1200, so will think on that.
Another way to do it: have an on/off option for including (or not) shield block numbers into the tank point numbers you display. So that those who want approximations can have them and those who want accurate numbers (minus shield blocks) can also have them.
Unless the "Use classic calculation" checkmark option you have already does this. What does that option do exactly? Comparing it with the standalone TankPoints I mentioned in my earlier post, unchecked it shows one value, checked to use "classic" the value is identical to the old TankPoints.
And here is hoping again that you will add a calculator :).
1) Options to exclude shield block from the equation.
Sorry. This would just be wrong. Shield Block is such an integral part of tanking that to ignore it is, well, just wrong.
2) Vary the effectiveness of shield block in the equation.
This would move away from one of the goals of the mod, that people would be able to compare their TP value and assess who has superior stats for tanking (useful when assigning tanks for fights).
3) Tooltips vanishing.
Yup, I had this happen. It seemed to go away after I updated some other mods. TankPointsFu uses gratuity to get tooltip info from inventory items, so maybe something going on in that lib?
Yup, I had this happen. It seemed to go away after I updated some other mods. TankPointsFu uses gratuity to get tooltip info from inventory items, so maybe something going on in that lib?
If you're referring to other mods using a newer Gratuity that fixed tooltips vanishing then its probably not. I checked gratuity-2.0.lua in TankPointsFu and downloaded !!!libraries and !!libs but both seem to be the same revision. If its any help, disabling TankPointsFu in FuBar (no need to be at Addons Menu at char screen) stops the tooltips problem until its enabled again.
1) Options to exclude shield block from the equation.
Sorry. This would just be wrong. Shield Block is such an integral part of tanking that to ignore it is, well, just wrong.
2) Vary the effectiveness of shield block in the equation.
This would move away from one of the goals of the mod, that people would be able to compare their TP value and assess who has superior stats for tanking (useful when assigning tanks for fights).
I know too well about not having any time. GL with that :).
The problem with shield block is...if the numbers were completely accurate mathematical calculations (as the original TankPoints is), I would have no problem whatsoever with not having the ability not to include shield block values. It comes down to: do we want unreliable/inaccurate numbers affecting tank point values in exchange for having some measure of shield blocking...or not?
With shield block, they are not accurate numbers, as you yourself pointed out--they include hypotheticals (among other problems with it). Its the reason the numbers were not added to the original TankPoints in either its summary or the calculator.
Blocking efficiency is also affected by the Strength of the player (in terms of total damage blocked, not the chance to). Total damage blocked when blocking occurs--not just the chance of doing so--has a fairly large effect on the survivability of a tank. That's the only area where Strength should have an effect on tank points. Not to mention the significant differences that blocking will have in every different fight. As well as your current calculation ((block = blockValue * ((2 + 4*blockChance) / 6 ) / 1500)) apparently not incorporating the effects of the Shield Specialization or Improved Shield Block talents (or do they + Strength--what are you using to obtain "blockValue" & "blockChance"?). And so on and so on.
So your current calculations for including shield block don't meet some people's needs. Our guild has been using the original TankPoints (and whispering the raid leader with values) when the leader wants a MT comparison; adding shield block as FuBar_TankPointsFu does currently subtracts from the usefulness of this. I can't recommend switching over to the FuBar one in our guild yet for MT comparisons (and personally can't use it due to it having no calculator yet).
So hopefully FuBar_TankPointsFu can also include just an option (not necessarily a total change-over) to calculate tank points according to the original formula. Unless the "Use classic calculations" option you provide already does this. Does it?
works fine for me, just a little spelling problem... the whole WoW is typed in american english, an then comes you with the british english "armour". ^_^
it's just a kind of an optical bump in the general view of the interface. it's not a must, but it would be nice :)
Without the calculator, though, I don't find your version too useful. The main use of TankPoints of myself and many (many) other people is for comparisons of different equipment at a particular level & quality prior to equipping. The calculator facilitates that. Otherwise you just get TankPoints as per what you are currently wearing. Much, much more limited.
Advantages to having the calculator include: comparing something at the auction house vs. what you currently have so you know whether its worth it to buy it or not. Comparing something in your bank vs. a drop you find. Comparing a raid find vs. a current one so you know whether its worth it to spend your DKP points or not. Comparing a quest reward vs. what you currently are wearing so you know if its worth the time to complete the quest. Comparing a friend's equipment to your own. As well as theoretical comparisons (how much more stamina on that hat will reach a certain TankPoints level?, etc). And on and on and on.
And a calculator is more flexible than even having a tooltip hook like HealPoints (as mentioned by others in this thread) has. Because you can compare items without having to actually link them, as well as do the theoretical calculations.
The other thing: how are you calculating shield blocks for damage mitigation (as you state in your description here) into your TankPoints values? The author of the old TankPoints did not add block values into his mod for the following reason: "Note: Block is a more complicated variable that depends on how hard and how often a mob hits and personal skills, thus is not considered in this benchmark." Your crushing blow mitigation calculations appear pretty clear, but not plain damage mitigation.
Nice work so far. Hope you consider adding a calculator as the old TankPoints has.
Secondly some suggestions/requests:
Could you please please add 'Say' to the 'Calls to Channel'?
Add ability to customize the ShoutOuts?
Add Lifegiving Gem to Calls?
tyvm for bringing this AddOn back in such a handy format :)
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Curse PremiumOn the subject of how shield blocks are being calculated:
http://www.wowace.com/wiki/FuBar_TankPointsFu
Specifically:
My main goal was to find a workable solution for integrating block into tank points. Although it is a complex subject, yes, I felt it was utterly wrong to just ignore such an important part of tanking.
Obviously, with the way I calculate it, it undervalues shield block if you are fighting against stuff that doesn't hit as hard or as often. For an extreme example if you have 30% block and 200 block value and are fighting something with that hits for 200 damage, every 3 seconds, then you'll have 100% mitigation with shield block ability. Similarly, if you're fighting something like Patchwerk, it overvalues shield block.
There is a case for reducing the scale on the numbers slightly though to 1.5 and about 1200, so will think on that.
Does this mod change the way tooltips is behaving in any way? I'm using r14008.
Another way to do it: have an on/off option for including (or not) shield block numbers into the tank point numbers you display. So that those who want approximations can have them and those who want accurate numbers (minus shield blocks) can also have them.
Unless the "Use classic calculation" checkmark option you have already does this. What does that option do exactly? Comparing it with the standalone TankPoints I mentioned in my earlier post, unchecked it shows one value, checked to use "classic" the value is identical to the old TankPoints.
And here is hoping again that you will add a calculator :).
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Curse PremiumOn the subject of:
1) Options to exclude shield block from the equation.
Sorry. This would just be wrong. Shield Block is such an integral part of tanking that to ignore it is, well, just wrong.
2) Vary the effectiveness of shield block in the equation.
This would move away from one of the goals of the mod, that people would be able to compare their TP value and assess who has superior stats for tanking (useful when assigning tanks for fights).
3) Tooltips vanishing.
Yup, I had this happen. It seemed to go away after I updated some other mods. TankPointsFu uses gratuity to get tooltip info from inventory items, so maybe something going on in that lib?
If you're referring to other mods using a newer Gratuity that fixed tooltips vanishing then its probably not. I checked gratuity-2.0.lua in TankPointsFu and downloaded !!!libraries and !!libs but both seem to be the same revision. If its any help, disabling TankPointsFu in FuBar (no need to be at Addons Menu at char screen) stops the tooltips problem until its enabled again.
I know too well about not having any time. GL with that :).
The problem with shield block is...if the numbers were completely accurate mathematical calculations (as the original TankPoints is), I would have no problem whatsoever with not having the ability not to include shield block values. It comes down to: do we want unreliable/inaccurate numbers affecting tank point values in exchange for having some measure of shield blocking...or not?
With shield block, they are not accurate numbers, as you yourself pointed out--they include hypotheticals (among other problems with it). Its the reason the numbers were not added to the original TankPoints in either its summary or the calculator.
Blocking efficiency is also affected by the Strength of the player (in terms of total damage blocked, not the chance to). Total damage blocked when blocking occurs--not just the chance of doing so--has a fairly large effect on the survivability of a tank. That's the only area where Strength should have an effect on tank points. Not to mention the significant differences that blocking will have in every different fight. As well as your current calculation ((block = blockValue * ((2 + 4*blockChance) / 6 ) / 1500)) apparently not incorporating the effects of the Shield Specialization or Improved Shield Block talents (or do they + Strength--what are you using to obtain "blockValue" & "blockChance"?). And so on and so on.
So your current calculations for including shield block don't meet some people's needs. Our guild has been using the original TankPoints (and whispering the raid leader with values) when the leader wants a MT comparison; adding shield block as FuBar_TankPointsFu does currently subtracts from the usefulness of this. I can't recommend switching over to the FuBar one in our guild yet for MT comparisons (and personally can't use it due to it having no calculator yet).
So hopefully FuBar_TankPointsFu can also include just an option (not necessarily a total change-over) to calculate tank points according to the original formula. Unless the "Use classic calculations" option you provide already does this. Does it?
it's just a kind of an optical bump in the general view of the interface. it's not a must, but it would be nice :)