Well Curse doesnt want 3rd party Updaters abusing their Servers and causing Traffic.
One way is to protect the Updater API with a secure handshake based on your Login.(If the Login gets submitted in Plain Text this wouldnt be the reason though :P)
The client is not a human and does not use a website. For all the information the client shows you etc, it has to come from somewhere. We have a server that sits and answers all client requests. Any requests sent to it except for news and for the client version check require a login. Its been that way in the old client, and it is this way in the new client. The server requires it for the client to connect. That's why its there, all of our servers ( called services by the client ) require it. The addon service, the data service ( character uploads ), and a few other services not yet being used.
Here is the text I sent in the uninstall page that poped-up. Just copying it here to make sure it actually gets to someone :)
Here is everything I have found that seemed wrong in the first 5 minutes on installation.
-I have to login : I don't see why that is necessary. I don't even see what the purpose is. I don't need to login to individually install addons from curse or any other addons site. I don't have a premium account. I don't want to distribute information that doesn't need to be distributed either.
-I got an addon that I didn't want from the get go. This was probably the biggest deal breaker here. That anywhere someone let that idea slip trough made me sure I did not want to use that product and will probably would only reconsider it after many discussions of what this implicates. There was no demand to install the profiler addon. No warnings that it was occuring. It's almost a chance I was working on a clean installation that I could see it. I could also not uninstall it. Frankly, if it would've been asked at the beggining as to how I can help to form a better database with this addon I probably would not have minded and felt I was contributing back somehow. But having it shoved down showed me that you went on a road that I don't think should be taken.
It has given me a glimpse of what a closed source updater can be about and I must say that I find this view very bleak. Again, this action just showed me why I do not want to use a product that doesn't want to be transparent.
Now on to the updater functionality itself.
First of all, the updater wants to update a game I don't have (WAR) and there doesn't seem to be any indication of separation between the 2. I don't know if the fact that I didn't have it installed barred me from all the WAR addon functionality or if the addons were all together. The programs needs to know which is installed on the computer and needs to either completely hide any mention on the non-installed game or make sure that the functionality that is blocked is showed as so (gray tab sort of thing). Right now, having only WoW installed I didn't know if I was/could get my feet into the WAR addons by accident. I had that suspiscion because there was WAR terminology across the interface but nothing in the addon window that was supposed to differentiate the 2.
For the addon list, there didn't seem to be a place to do semi-advanced search, just a search field to go for names. I want to be able to browse addons from the information gathered from the addon list. I want to see them by category and also by update date to see what's new.
Also, when expanding the window, both the list view and the addon information pane seem to take each 50% of window estate. I want to be able to resize the addon information pane so that I can see more in the addon list when I size up the window.
The list itself also seems to need some cleanup. The complete first page is just garbled of stud addons.
With impeding merge with WoWAce, I was hoping for a client that might be a little flimsy but that provided the basics right. I'm sorry to say but it seems I will find other ways to easily update my addons once the merge occurs.
Yes, I don't need to login to get my updates.
So if there is not anything as WoWInterface's "latest updates" or "favorits" I'll allways use curse as one of the last resorts to get an addon.
And to be honest, If it sucks to get my addons there, or I need to have a profilere to update.
Than I myself will find other addons that do the thing for me, on WoWIF!
Here is everything I have found that seemed wrong in the first 5 minutes on installation.
-I have to login : I don't see why that is necessary. I don't even see what the purpose is. I don't need to login to individually install addons from curse or any other addons site. I don't have a premium account. I don't want to distribute information that doesn't need to be distributed either.
I believe I've adequately explained this.
-I got an addon that I didn't want from the get go. This was probably the biggest deal breaker here. That anywhere someone let that idea slip trough made me sure I did not want to use that product and will probably would only reconsider it after many discussions of what this implicates. There was no demand to install the profiler addon. No warnings that it was occuring. It's almost a chance I was working on a clean installation that I could see it. I could also not uninstall it. Frankly, if it would've been asked at the beggining as to how I can help to form a better database with this addon I probably would not have minded and felt I was contributing back somehow. But having it shoved down showed me that you went on a road that I don't think should be taken.
I just finished the code to actually uninstall it this morning, and it will be released soon. This is a feature that most users do know about, it lets you upload your character profiles so you can see them and is well advertised as doing so on our main site.
It has given me a glimpse of what a closed source updater can be about and I must say that I find this view very bleak. Again, this action just showed me why I do not want to use a product that doesn't want to be transparent.
It's a beta and everything is rapidly changing in it, lots of thing are getting face lifts or completely different.
Now on to the updater functionality itself.
First of all, the updater wants to update a game I don't have (WAR) and there doesn't seem to be any indication of separation between the 2. I don't know if the fact that I didn't have it installed barred me from all the WAR addon functionality or if the addons were all together. The programs needs to know which is installed on the computer and needs to either completely hide any mention on the non-installed game or make sure that the functionality that is blocked is showed as so (gray tab sort of thing). Right now, having only WoW installed I didn't know if I was/could get my feet into the WAR addons by accident. I had that suspiscion because there was WAR terminology across the interface but nothing in the addon window that was supposed to differentiate the 2.
It shouldn't detect or show a WAR tab if you dont have it installed. The only place that will show you this is the Find an Addon tab where all the addons are listed. I'm adding in a game toggle shortly for it.
For the addon list, there didn't seem to be a place to do semi-advanced search, just a search field to go for names. I want to be able to browse addons from the information gathered from the addon list. I want to see them by category and also by update date to see what's new.
You can click the tabs to sort by category, and I'll look into sort by newest.
The list itself also seems to need some cleanup. The complete first page is just garbled of stud addons.
With impeding merge with WoWAce, I was hoping for a client that might be a little flimsy but that provided the basics right. I'm sorry to say but it seems I will find other ways to easily update my addons once the merge occurs.
The list will get cleanup when the service goes live. We are relying on the current curse.com dataset which has alot of junk in it. Switching to exclusive curseforge access will remove ALOT of cruft. Also when wowace begins to use the curseforge software, we will then be able to see those addons as well.
Yes, I don't need to login to get my updates.
So if there is not anything as WoWInterface's "latest updates" or "favorits" I'll allways use curse as one of the last resorts to get an addon.
And to be honest, If it sucks to get my addons there, or I need to have a profilere to update.
Than I myself will find other addons that do the thing for me, on WoWIF!
ps. is the client on CurseForge supposed to work?
The client on curseforge does work, you may have to download it a few times though. What is WoWInterfaces "latest updates" and "favorites".
The client on curseforge does work, you may have to download it a few times though. What is WoWInterfaces "latest updates" and "favorites".
The "Favorites" feature of wowi requires you to be logged in, it lets you specify a list of addons that are your favorites and it will notify you if it is updated.
The "Latest Updates" feature just tells you what has been updated recently on the website.
Btw. will there come some advantages that make the free customers think "well the client is cool" too? Because at the moment (even if I ignore the things which aren't good solved at the moment) I don't see any reason to use the client; because I could use favorites and it is the same work for me (maybe except unzipping).
The client on curseforge does work, you may have to download it a few times though.
Download it a few times?
Sorry to be rude or what ever. I used to downloading stuff once.
Install it and have it working. But downloading it a few times?
So if I do manange to get it working, afer a wohl lot off failed downloads, does it work the first time with the addons or do I have to download them more then once?
-the fun thing is, your closing down Wau to save download trafic, but the updater it self generates extra trafic, since it won't work the first time. (downloaded it up to 10 time an kept getting errors with the Curse Client Installer 2.0.0.0 Fixed)
10x 3.4 mb = 34mb thats huge (just checked Wau 151.4mb since I have got it and thats a long long time ;) )
Btw. will there come some advantages that make the free customers think "well the client is cool" too? Because at the moment (even if I ignore the things which aren't good solved at the moment) I don't see any reason to use the client; because I could use favorites and it is the same work for me (maybe except unzipping).
Curseforge doesn't have any Favourites section - I didn't find it. It can send email notifications about addon updates, but I already find at least one addon (The Traveller's Reference) which send me an email without download link, well, that mail even didn't contain the name of the updated addon... I don't know what is set bad, but it doesn't seemed a working solution for me.
edit: I didn't find a list about my email subscriptions too... as if we'll be forced to use the client instead of manual updates.
Btw. will there come some advantages that make the free customers think "well the client is cool" too? Because at the moment (even if I ignore the things which aren't good solved at the moment) I don't see any reason to use the client; because I could use favorites and it is the same work for me (maybe except unzipping).
It tells you what has been updated so you know if your using the latest, and with three clicks you can update any addon you want.
There is ONE thing that really makes it diffrent from WAU. There is no one click update all addons to the latest.
To me I find the client as useful as ever. For me it does what I expect, tells me what addons are out of date, and lets me update them in a way thats easier then manually checking 50 diffrent webpages and remembering what version I have installed every day, and from having to manually dick around with the file system and zip files and all the other things that make addon managment such a magical fun fuzzy time.
This is the SAME functionality we have ALWAYS provided FOR FREE. There has never been a complaint. We will STILL provide all the same functionality FOR FREE. Some new features though are not going to be able to be had for free, and one of those is Updating all addons automatically and having them installed in a single click.
I understand people have had this experience with other updating software. It just not something curse.com has ever provided and for a fair reason: it's expensive in terms of resource usage and is not able to be maintained without costing the mainters some dollar amount.
... did you bother to read any of the posts from Kaelten and/or Kolie? It's been clearly explained many times already that the Curse Client does not yet update from wowace.com, and will not do so until the new software is installed on wowace.com sometime in September or October. This thread exists so that people who currently use WAU or another program to update from wowace.com can offer feedback on the Curse Client before it becomes the only option for updating from wowace.com.
Yes I did bother to read them thanks - I'm not complaining about it not doing WowAce addons I'm complaining about it being such a crappy looking product and currently not working properly.
It's hardly a beta product for us WAU users is it if it doesn't do any of the functionality we have at the moment. It's like me downloading addons for Conan and then trying to offer some insight why things for a game I don't have don't work.
When it finally starts doing WAU work I will comment properly on it's functionality. All I want to comment on at the moment is it's completely crappy look and clunky feel...
In reply to having to download the client multiple times:
I don't run the servers, I don't know much about them, and I am pretty sure that yea you shouldn't have to download them a few times. For whatever reason, I'm told a hardware issue on curseforge.com, some bits are getting flipped in any files sent from its webserver. It happens to any html loaded from the server, any images in the webpages it hosts, and apparently also in files you download from there. Kaelten knows more about the situation. It doesn't effect anything the client does. Just getting the client is fubared. The official 2.0.0.0 installer is hosted at wardb.com which is unaffected and can be retrieved from ( only needs to be gotten once ) http://www.wardb.com/client.aspx
This is a feature that most users do know about, it lets you upload your character profiles so you can see them and is well advertised as doing so on our main site.
Umm... a week or so before this whole WowAceForge stuff happened, I'd installed the Curse Client specifically for this feature. However, it didn't work, and after some searching on the (atrocious) Curse Forums, I discovered that this feature has never worked, for anyone; I couldn't find anything from anyone actually affiliated with Curse addressing this, or saying when it might work in the future. Are you saying this feature actually works now?
It works in the beta client. The current client that is "release" ( 0.16.X ) do not have this feature. Its in the beta clients ( 1.x and 2.0 ( which is considered release client for warhammer online ).
For the Old client ( and new ) we actually have all character uploads for WoW and an internal test of the character profiles. Its actually really awsome. I don't think that has been made live yet. For War it certainly is and I know WoW isn't far behind if not already released?
-- edit --
Talked to Kaelten and he says that the WoW profile system was ready for release but they felt it necessary to improve another feature before release and that's all that is holding it back.
First of all, terrible installer. Why is a installer even needed for such a extreme simple application?
Secondly, the interface is poorly made, hopefully not intended to be anywhere near finished (otherwise, get a designer and a interface specialist to look at it!).
Not loading the addon list by default sucks. And when you load it, the available information is seriously lacking.
I can't see when a addon have been updated last, a date would be nice so I don't install 4 year old addons (that Curse still have!) on my computer.
Then I spot a "Category" column, but no option to select a category, what's the point in that? Who cares about the author's name, it's about addons!
The description for the currently selected addon don't disappear when I change my search, so the addon I did select aren't in the list anymore.
As said before, the use of Ctrl+Click to mark several addons is such a large failure, and a HUGE setback from the WAU client.
Also this bugs if you change the search it keeps the SelectedIndex relative to what available addons is in the list, not in what you had listed in total.
So basicly you cannot install say "AutoPoison" and "Titan Panel" at the same time, because the selected index is going to mess up when you use the search. Something that did NOT happend in the WAU.
Searching more, I find options as "Auto-Install Premium Updates" and "Reinstall New Addons" , why in gods name are these enabled by default?!?
It's surposed to be a addon client right? not mal/spyware that automatical can install things you actually don't want.
Also, what's this "Screenshot" key for? screenshots and addons, WHAT?!?
Sorry but Kolie, haven't you learned anything from the WAU ?
First of all, terrible installer. Why is a installer even needed for such a extreme simple application?
Deployment, running as administrator to setup registry keys, etc.
Secondly, the interface is poorly made, hopefully not intended to be anywhere near finished (otherwise, get a designer and a interface specialist to look at it!).
Been asking for one :)
Not loading the addon list by default sucks. And when you load it, the available information is seriously lacking.
Yeop its on the list. Its supposed to cache it etc, just not done yet.
I can't see when a addon have been updated last, a date would be nice so I don't install 4 year old addons (that Curse still have!) on my computer.
Then I spot a "Category" column, but no option to select a category, what's the point in that? Who cares about the author's name, it's about addons!
Both have been requested, so they were added.
The description for the currently selected addon don't disappear when I change my search, so the addon I did select aren't in the list anymore.
You select an addon, the window changes to the one you selected. You search, it still shows that information. I know it does this, I guess its intentional.
As said before, the use of Ctrl+Click to mark several addons is such a large failure, and a HUGE setback from the WAU client.
Also this bugs if you change the search it keeps the SelectedIndex relative to what available addons is in the list, not in what you had listed in total.
While multiple select does appear to happen, it's not processed. I may remove it then.
So basicly you cannot install say "AutoPoison" and "Titan Panel" at the same time, because the selected index is going to mess up when you use the search. Something that did NOT happend in the WAU.
Its a beta, bugs happen, did you submit a ticket? Can you also provided more detailed steps to get the problem your attempting to explain?
Searching more, I find options as "Auto-Install Premium Updates" and "Reinstall New Addons" , why in gods name are these enabled by default?!?
Reinstall new addons is an option you chose to enable, it happens on first start. Auto install premium updates, you want if you pay for it right?
It's surposed to be a addon client right? not mal/spyware that automatical can install things you actually don't want.
It shouldn't install things you don't want. I guess the "exception" can be the profilers, which I have code in the latest build to completely uninstall. A lot of users expect it though, its part of our character profile system and is installed because of this.
Also, what's this "Screenshot" key for? screenshots and addons, WHAT?!?
That was for the screenshot manager which is broken and I took out the window to get to it.
Sorry but Kolie, haven't you learned anything from the WAU ?
One way is to protect the Updater API with a secure handshake based on your Login.(If the Login gets submitted in Plain Text this wouldnt be the reason though :P)
So if there is not anything as WoWInterface's "latest updates" or "favorits" I'll allways use curse as one of the last resorts to get an addon.
And to be honest, If it sucks to get my addons there, or I need to have a profilere to update.
Than I myself will find other addons that do the thing for me, on WoWIF!
ps. is the client on CurseForge supposed to work?
I believe I've adequately explained this.
I just finished the code to actually uninstall it this morning, and it will be released soon. This is a feature that most users do know about, it lets you upload your character profiles so you can see them and is well advertised as doing so on our main site.
It's a beta and everything is rapidly changing in it, lots of thing are getting face lifts or completely different.
It shouldn't detect or show a WAR tab if you dont have it installed. The only place that will show you this is the Find an Addon tab where all the addons are listed. I'm adding in a game toggle shortly for it.
You can click the tabs to sort by category, and I'll look into sort by newest.
The list will get cleanup when the service goes live. We are relying on the current curse.com dataset which has alot of junk in it. Switching to exclusive curseforge access will remove ALOT of cruft. Also when wowace begins to use the curseforge software, we will then be able to see those addons as well.
The client on curseforge does work, you may have to download it a few times though. What is WoWInterfaces "latest updates" and "favorites".
The "Favorites" feature of wowi requires you to be logged in, it lets you specify a list of addons that are your favorites and it will notify you if it is updated.
The "Latest Updates" feature just tells you what has been updated recently on the website.
there is a ticket in for it, just thought i'd post the issue here in case nobody is looking over there..
Download it a few times?
Sorry to be rude or what ever. I used to downloading stuff once.
Install it and have it working. But downloading it a few times?
So if I do manange to get it working, afer a wohl lot off failed downloads, does it work the first time with the addons or do I have to download them more then once?
-the fun thing is, your closing down Wau to save download trafic, but the updater it self generates extra trafic, since it won't work the first time. (downloaded it up to 10 time an kept getting errors with the Curse Client Installer 2.0.0.0 Fixed)
10x 3.4 mb = 34mb thats huge (just checked Wau 151.4mb since I have got it and thats a long long time ;) )
Curseforge doesn't have any Favourites section - I didn't find it. It can send email notifications about addon updates, but I already find at least one addon (The Traveller's Reference) which send me an email without download link, well, that mail even didn't contain the name of the updated addon... I don't know what is set bad, but it doesn't seemed a working solution for me.
edit: I didn't find a list about my email subscriptions too... as if we'll be forced to use the client instead of manual updates.
It tells you what has been updated so you know if your using the latest, and with three clicks you can update any addon you want.
There is ONE thing that really makes it diffrent from WAU. There is no one click update all addons to the latest.
To me I find the client as useful as ever. For me it does what I expect, tells me what addons are out of date, and lets me update them in a way thats easier then manually checking 50 diffrent webpages and remembering what version I have installed every day, and from having to manually dick around with the file system and zip files and all the other things that make addon managment such a magical fun fuzzy time.
This is the SAME functionality we have ALWAYS provided FOR FREE. There has never been a complaint. We will STILL provide all the same functionality FOR FREE. Some new features though are not going to be able to be had for free, and one of those is Updating all addons automatically and having them installed in a single click.
I understand people have had this experience with other updating software. It just not something curse.com has ever provided and for a fair reason: it's expensive in terms of resource usage and is not able to be maintained without costing the mainters some dollar amount.
Yes I did bother to read them thanks - I'm not complaining about it not doing WowAce addons I'm complaining about it being such a crappy looking product and currently not working properly.
It's hardly a beta product for us WAU users is it if it doesn't do any of the functionality we have at the moment. It's like me downloading addons for Conan and then trying to offer some insight why things for a game I don't have don't work.
When it finally starts doing WAU work I will comment properly on it's functionality. All I want to comment on at the moment is it's completely crappy look and clunky feel...
I don't run the servers, I don't know much about them, and I am pretty sure that yea you shouldn't have to download them a few times. For whatever reason, I'm told a hardware issue on curseforge.com, some bits are getting flipped in any files sent from its webserver. It happens to any html loaded from the server, any images in the webpages it hosts, and apparently also in files you download from there. Kaelten knows more about the situation. It doesn't effect anything the client does. Just getting the client is fubared. The official 2.0.0.0 installer is hosted at wardb.com which is unaffected and can be retrieved from ( only needs to be gotten once ) http://www.wardb.com/client.aspx
Umm... a week or so before this whole WowAceForge stuff happened, I'd installed the Curse Client specifically for this feature. However, it didn't work, and after some searching on the (atrocious) Curse Forums, I discovered that this feature has never worked, for anyone; I couldn't find anything from anyone actually affiliated with Curse addressing this, or saying when it might work in the future. Are you saying this feature actually works now?
For the Old client ( and new ) we actually have all character uploads for WoW and an internal test of the character profiles. Its actually really awsome. I don't think that has been made live yet. For War it certainly is and I know WoW isn't far behind if not already released?
-- edit --
Talked to Kaelten and he says that the WoW profile system was ready for release but they felt it necessary to improve another feature before release and that's all that is holding it back.
First of all, terrible installer. Why is a installer even needed for such a extreme simple application?
Secondly, the interface is poorly made, hopefully not intended to be anywhere near finished (otherwise, get a designer and a interface specialist to look at it!).
Not loading the addon list by default sucks. And when you load it, the available information is seriously lacking.
I can't see when a addon have been updated last, a date would be nice so I don't install 4 year old addons (that Curse still have!) on my computer.
Then I spot a "Category" column, but no option to select a category, what's the point in that? Who cares about the author's name, it's about addons!
The description for the currently selected addon don't disappear when I change my search, so the addon I did select aren't in the list anymore.
As said before, the use of Ctrl+Click to mark several addons is such a large failure, and a HUGE setback from the WAU client.
Also this bugs if you change the search it keeps the SelectedIndex relative to what available addons is in the list, not in what you had listed in total.
So basicly you cannot install say "AutoPoison" and "Titan Panel" at the same time, because the selected index is going to mess up when you use the search. Something that did NOT happend in the WAU.
Searching more, I find options as "Auto-Install Premium Updates" and "Reinstall New Addons" , why in gods name are these enabled by default?!?
It's surposed to be a addon client right? not mal/spyware that automatical can install things you actually don't want.
Also, what's this "Screenshot" key for? screenshots and addons, WHAT?!?
Sorry but Kolie, haven't you learned anything from the WAU ?
Deployment, running as administrator to setup registry keys, etc.
Been asking for one :)
Yeop its on the list. Its supposed to cache it etc, just not done yet.
I can't see when a addon have been updated last, a date would be nice so I don't install 4 year old addons (that Curse still have!) on my computer.
Both have been requested, so they were added.
You select an addon, the window changes to the one you selected. You search, it still shows that information. I know it does this, I guess its intentional.
While multiple select does appear to happen, it's not processed. I may remove it then.
Its a beta, bugs happen, did you submit a ticket? Can you also provided more detailed steps to get the problem your attempting to explain?
Reinstall new addons is an option you chose to enable, it happens on first start. Auto install premium updates, you want if you pay for it right?
It shouldn't install things you don't want. I guess the "exception" can be the profilers, which I have code in the latest build to completely uninstall. A lot of users expect it though, its part of our character profile system and is installed because of this.
That was for the screenshot manager which is broken and I took out the window to get to it.
I'm just a programmer, and I write what I'm told.
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Curse PremiumWow, sorry kolie, seems like your getting the 3rd degree from users.
[me=OrionShock]channels Matrix[/me]
"Not like this, Not like this"
Just eventually recompile one for me for linux and we'll see where we go :D