WTF is it about 3.0.0.9 that causes standalone libraries to be silently deleted? No updates are being done, nothing new is being added. Simply running CC and letting it do scans for new things, then exiting the client -- and once again a couple of libraries are suddenly missing.
I've reinstalled WindowLib ("Lib: Window-1.0") and CandyBar ("Lib: CandyBar-2.0") no less than 3 times over the last week. Haven't changed oRA2 at all, mind you, but its required libraries keep getting yanked out from underneath it with no notification to the user that this is happening.
If it sounds like I'm a little aggravated, it's only because I am.
I second Farmbuyer. This is really annoying. Moreover, the client does not ever log anything about it in its log. (And please don't tell me that the ClickOnce, non-Mono-compatible CC4 fixes this).
I'm quite amused that when I try and report a client bug, I get the helpful error message: "Your bug report could not be submitted. Please try again." Somehow, I feel compelled to do what it says, but no matter how many times I try again, I get the same message. :P
Perhaps the client should not suggest that the user simply "try again" unless the client reasonably expects that to succeed. Perhaps it should suggest the user log in to the curse.com website and file a bug report there.
I have no idea. I presumed (perhaps incorrectly) that because this thread is named "The New Curse Client" and because recent posts talk about the 4.0 preview, that I should be discussing it here.
Perhaps there needs to be another thread for "The New(er) Curse Client", since I would likely cry and convulse if 4.0 were released in anything like its current state.
I sometimes wonder if the Curse employees really have nothing better to do than to continually reinvent this client with a newer and buggier version as soon as the previous one actually reaches a decent level of stability and maturity.
For me, 3.0 has been clunky and counterintuitive to use, but I've finally reached a level of comfort with it such that I ignore that it always wants to "reinstall" whatever addon is first in the list, rather than "update" it. Or that after updating an addon, the list selection changes (sometimes moving up, sometimes moving down), but the detail pane doesn't update. Or that libraries and dependencies (that I installed using the client) often seem to delete themselves leaving no trace in the logs. I've come to expect these things and have trained myself to work around them.
Now in 4.0 I get to deal with text I can't read, buttons that have no apparent purpose, windows with no borders, links that go nowhere, inconsistent visual styles, and another useless log that never seems to log anything at all when I have an error with unexpected behavior. And on top of that, the error reporting feature doesn't work! :)
I hate having to retrain myself around the quirks of an application every few months. However, I'd gladly learn to live with it if I could finally search within descriptions! For some reason, WoW addon authors have an unnatural proclivity for giving their addons completely meaningless names unrelated to their functionality, as well as miscategorizing them.
Perhaps there needs to be another thread for "The New(er) Curse Client", since I would likely cry and convulse if 4.0 were released in anything like its current state.
3.x is just on the acceptable side on behavior. Barely. Being able to see the latest available changelog without installing it is a really great feature. I very much like that it detects locally-modified addons, since I end up doing a lot of that. Searching for new addons has so far been great.
But silently deleting libraries would be considered a fatal bug in any other "stable" released application. Any other customers could reasonably expect to get it fixed, too, if they can't get access to the source to fix it themselves (the standard open source community approach). If 4.0 is released with the same bug, then I'll give up on curse entirely and look to some other site+client combination. The one being put together by wowinterface sounds promising. Hell, at that point wowmatrix would become a serious entry on the list of contenders, along with anything else that possesses the useful property of working.
I wouldn't say that the 3.0.9 client doesn't work. It just happens to UNwork too when you turn your back on it for a few moments. :)
Edit: I'm also seriously amused by the fact that Curse is "unobtrusively polling" WoWI for updates to addons hosted there, and then making that information available through the client. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great feature, and I'm glad the WoWI folks are letting it work that way. In fact, I think that's exactly the way WowMatrix started doing it after the major addon sites stopped allowing direct downloads to WowMatrix's updater. Way to take a page from the pros, Curse! :)
Nandini, wowmatrix whern't pro's.. they where very much so the shady conn man. You might say that curse is lifing their ideas into the client, when infact alot of these ideas of inter-site coperation have been talked about around here for years.
As for it deleting disembedded libs, ya it's a glitch. In light of CC4 not sure CC3 will get much attention now.
I know it has been talked about for a long time. When Farmbuyer mockingly threatened to try out WowMatrix, it just made me think of that. I'm glad the feature is there. It's just fun to tease the big boys now and then. :)
I like where CC4 is headed. Since my premium membership comes from me being an intrepid author and not from my wallet, I'm inclined to cushion these bugs with "you get what you pay for". Sure we are customers in a sense (and definitely if you actually forked out cash) but I think the majority of us on these forums got our memberships for free. I'm guilty of sounding over-entitled as much as anyone, but this is something to bear in mind I think.
"you get what you pay for". Sure we are customers in a sense (and definitely if you actually forked out cash) but I think the majority of us on these forums got our memberships for free.
See, it actually works in the other direction. Once the software behaves reliably, then I'm happy to pay money for it, but not before. I send money in for GVim, I send money in for WinZip, I send money in for DynDNS, because they have never failed me. Not once, not ever. They've earned it.
If CC were a commercial project, I would have voted with my wallet and abandoned it for something that doesn't erase users' files without so much as a peep in the log. Not to be insulting, but that's amateur open mic night.
If CC were an open source project, I would have voted with my time and either contributed a bugfix -- for free, as you point out, because that's how a community works -- or worst case, supported a fork of the project and then contributed a bugfix to the variant.
Instead we're stuck in the middle, unable to do anything but report bugs... over and over... with no response, no acknowledgment, no "we're looking into it but can't reproduce it, please send more data". There's no indication in this official thread that the authors have even noticed.
Call it bitter apathy brought on by terminal disappointment. I have a lot of respect for what the curse guys have done with the addon-hosting-site end of things, especially the careful manual approval of uploaded files. But to be blunt, I'm only keeping CC around until something more professional comes along. I have no hope left for CC3 or 4.
Not trouble free for me, and certainly not 10 times faster. (Merely clicking in the search box grinds my computer to a halt briefly.) I realize this is a preview version, however, and I look forward to a few more months of testing.
Quick question: At one time with the v4 client under "tools" there was the option to clean up the variable files, I can't seem to find it anymore. Did this get moved somewhere, or am I completely missing it?
Regarding ticket 646: Did you even attempt to reproduce this before dismissing the ticket as Invalid? I took a look at the first page of addons in the Abandoned development stage on WowAce. Here are a few additional Abandoned addons that are still appearing in the "Get More Addons" list in build 605:
Darkness
AcronymGuide
LibAbacus-3.0
LibSpecialEventsAura-3.0
Note that not ALL abandoned projects are listed on the "Get More Addons" page. Perhaps some continue to be listed because they are dependencies or embeds of other active projects. (Surely not AcronymGuide, though?)
None of them are listed as available for installation in the v3 client. I don't have any of these anywhere on my computer, contrary to your assertion. (I did install PitBull_FullBar after finding it in the list, just to see what the v4 Client would do with it.)
For that matter, exactly how would you know if I had these installed, anyway? That information didn't appear to be included in my bug report.
I do have a copy of the addon PitBull_FullBar on my computer now, although not in any managed WoW installation. I can maybe understand that addon appearing in my list, even though it has been marked as Abandoned for a long time, since I was the author.
In fact, I marked it as Deleted yesterday, and it's still showing up in my "Get More Addons" list today, whereas no other addons in the Deleted stage appear. It does make sense if it's there because I'm the author, but that doesn't account for some of the other Abandoned projects showing up in the "Get More Addons" list.
Edit: Yes, I tried to edit my Invalid ticket, but after typing all this out on CurseForge, I got an error message saying "You do not have permission to view this page" when I tried to sumbit my comment there. That's why I'm posting in this thread, to avoid opening a new ticket.
After all my griping about the testing process, I'd just like to share my gratitude for being able to sort the entire "Get More Addons" list by popularity in the v4 client. It is endlessly amusing looking at the least popular addons. There are a few awesome gems at the very bottom!
My favorite so far is Elkano's "FixGermanSpellCrits" from 2006, with 3 recent downloads. I'm not laughing at the addon, it served a useful purpose back in patch 1.7. It's just fun to take a trip down memory lane and guess at why some of these addons are at the bottom. Some of them are actually quite interesting, and there's not an easy way to see the whole list sorted this way on one page on curse.com.
Edit: More bizzare yet unpopular things that look fun: RomanRoller ("When RomanRoller is on, it will convert all loot rolls and "/roll" to Roman Numerals.") and HexMessage ("HexMessage encodes all messages you send using hexadecimal chars. Players able to read Hex or having the addon themselves will see the correct solution, everybody else will wonder what those numbers are.").
Edit again: The more I look at these, the more I think there needs to be some kind of weekly feature for obscure addons. Like Kerpele (Allows your guild leader to log you out remotely for being AFK during a raid.) What kind of sadistic guild leader would force his guild mates to install that? I love it!
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Curse PremiumI've reinstalled WindowLib ("Lib: Window-1.0") and CandyBar ("Lib: CandyBar-2.0") no less than 3 times over the last week. Haven't changed oRA2 at all, mind you, but its required libraries keep getting yanked out from underneath it with no notification to the user that this is happening.
If it sounds like I'm a little aggravated, it's only because I am.
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Curse PremiumPerhaps the client should not suggest that the user simply "try again" unless the client reasonably expects that to succeed. Perhaps it should suggest the user log in to the curse.com website and file a bug report there.
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Curse PremiumI highly doubt it, since they closed the ticket tracker on curseforge.
I have no idea. I presumed (perhaps incorrectly) that because this thread is named "The New Curse Client" and because recent posts talk about the 4.0 preview, that I should be discussing it here.
Perhaps there needs to be another thread for "The New(er) Curse Client", since I would likely cry and convulse if 4.0 were released in anything like its current state.
I sometimes wonder if the Curse employees really have nothing better to do than to continually reinvent this client with a newer and buggier version as soon as the previous one actually reaches a decent level of stability and maturity.
For me, 3.0 has been clunky and counterintuitive to use, but I've finally reached a level of comfort with it such that I ignore that it always wants to "reinstall" whatever addon is first in the list, rather than "update" it. Or that after updating an addon, the list selection changes (sometimes moving up, sometimes moving down), but the detail pane doesn't update. Or that libraries and dependencies (that I installed using the client) often seem to delete themselves leaving no trace in the logs. I've come to expect these things and have trained myself to work around them.
Now in 4.0 I get to deal with text I can't read, buttons that have no apparent purpose, windows with no borders, links that go nowhere, inconsistent visual styles, and another useless log that never seems to log anything at all when I have an error with unexpected behavior. And on top of that, the error reporting feature doesn't work! :)
I hate having to retrain myself around the quirks of an application every few months. However, I'd gladly learn to live with it if I could finally search within descriptions! For some reason, WoW addon authors have an unnatural proclivity for giving their addons completely meaningless names unrelated to their functionality, as well as miscategorizing them.
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Curse Premium3.x is just on the acceptable side on behavior. Barely. Being able to see the latest available changelog without installing it is a really great feature. I very much like that it detects locally-modified addons, since I end up doing a lot of that. Searching for new addons has so far been great.
But silently deleting libraries would be considered a fatal bug in any other "stable" released application. Any other customers could reasonably expect to get it fixed, too, if they can't get access to the source to fix it themselves (the standard open source community approach). If 4.0 is released with the same bug, then I'll give up on curse entirely and look to some other site+client combination. The one being put together by wowinterface sounds promising. Hell, at that point wowmatrix would become a serious entry on the list of contenders, along with anything else that possesses the useful property of working.
Edit: I'm also seriously amused by the fact that Curse is "unobtrusively polling" WoWI for updates to addons hosted there, and then making that information available through the client. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great feature, and I'm glad the WoWI folks are letting it work that way. In fact, I think that's exactly the way WowMatrix started doing it after the major addon sites stopped allowing direct downloads to WowMatrix's updater. Way to take a page from the pros, Curse! :)
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Curse PremiumAs for it deleting disembedded libs, ya it's a glitch. In light of CC4 not sure CC3 will get much attention now.
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Curse PremiumI could be wrong, but I interpreted that as being sarcasm.
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Curse PremiumKeep up the good work!
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Curse PremiumSee, it actually works in the other direction. Once the software behaves reliably, then I'm happy to pay money for it, but not before. I send money in for GVim, I send money in for WinZip, I send money in for DynDNS, because they have never failed me. Not once, not ever. They've earned it.
If CC were a commercial project, I would have voted with my wallet and abandoned it for something that doesn't erase users' files without so much as a peep in the log. Not to be insulting, but that's amateur open mic night.
If CC were an open source project, I would have voted with my time and either contributed a bugfix -- for free, as you point out, because that's how a community works -- or worst case, supported a fork of the project and then contributed a bugfix to the variant.
Instead we're stuck in the middle, unable to do anything but report bugs... over and over... with no response, no acknowledgment, no "we're looking into it but can't reproduce it, please send more data". There's no indication in this official thread that the authors have even noticed.
Call it bitter apathy brought on by terminal disappointment. I have a lot of respect for what the curse guys have done with the addon-hosting-site end of things, especially the careful manual approval of uploaded files. But to be blunt, I'm only keeping CC around until something more professional comes along. I have no hope left for CC3 or 4.
Fire it on and trouble free, excellent work.
Also, speed is 10 times faster than the old one.
Not trouble free for me, and certainly not 10 times faster. (Merely clicking in the search box grinds my computer to a halt briefly.) I realize this is a preview version, however, and I look forward to a few more months of testing.
Quick question: At one time with the v4 client under "tools" there was the option to clean up the variable files, I can't seem to find it anymore. Did this get moved somewhere, or am I completely missing it?
Thanks!
- Darkness
- AcronymGuide
- LibAbacus-3.0
- LibSpecialEventsAura-3.0
Note that not ALL abandoned projects are listed on the "Get More Addons" page. Perhaps some continue to be listed because they are dependencies or embeds of other active projects. (Surely not AcronymGuide, though?)None of them are listed as available for installation in the v3 client. I don't have any of these anywhere on my computer, contrary to your assertion. (I did install PitBull_FullBar after finding it in the list, just to see what the v4 Client would do with it.)
For that matter, exactly how would you know if I had these installed, anyway? That information didn't appear to be included in my bug report.
I do have a copy of the addon PitBull_FullBar on my computer now, although not in any managed WoW installation. I can maybe understand that addon appearing in my list, even though it has been marked as Abandoned for a long time, since I was the author.
In fact, I marked it as Deleted yesterday, and it's still showing up in my "Get More Addons" list today, whereas no other addons in the Deleted stage appear. It does make sense if it's there because I'm the author, but that doesn't account for some of the other Abandoned projects showing up in the "Get More Addons" list.
Edit: Yes, I tried to edit my Invalid ticket, but after typing all this out on CurseForge, I got an error message saying "You do not have permission to view this page" when I tried to sumbit my comment there. That's why I'm posting in this thread, to avoid opening a new ticket.
Having done years of QA volunteer work for the Mozilla project it's quite frustrating.
My favorite so far is Elkano's "FixGermanSpellCrits" from 2006, with 3 recent downloads. I'm not laughing at the addon, it served a useful purpose back in patch 1.7. It's just fun to take a trip down memory lane and guess at why some of these addons are at the bottom. Some of them are actually quite interesting, and there's not an easy way to see the whole list sorted this way on one page on curse.com.
Edit: More bizzare yet unpopular things that look fun: RomanRoller ("When RomanRoller is on, it will convert all loot rolls and "/roll" to Roman Numerals.") and HexMessage ("HexMessage encodes all messages you send using hexadecimal chars. Players able to read Hex or having the addon themselves will see the correct solution, everybody else will wonder what those numbers are.").
Edit again: The more I look at these, the more I think there needs to be some kind of weekly feature for obscure addons. Like Kerpele (Allows your guild leader to log you out remotely for being AFK during a raid.) What kind of sadistic guild leader would force his guild mates to install that? I love it!