Darn, I didn't read it correctly the first time. I thought that the glyph UI was changing only.
But this is a huge problem for Talented, which is already quite a big UI, if I have to add glyphs to it...
i'm sure you got room for 6 little buttons -- you don't really need the big circle thing.
i agree with others when they say it really could be way more useful for leveling -- having a solo spec vs a group spec. but it's something they are going to charge for so then the issue is paying the "level appropriate" amount of gold. it sounds like they're letting you buy a permanent ability to have a 2nd spec.
they really should just allow everybody to dual spec and charge a fixed fee for wiping your talents make that fixed fee based on toon level. the escalating respec fee seems counter to the idea of allowing people to have dual specs.
they really should just allow everybody to dual spec and charge a fixed fee for wiping your talents make that fixed fee based on toon level. the escalating respec fee seems counter to the idea of allowing people to have dual specs.
Hardly. If you can freely switch between two specs at no cost (other than the initial cost of unlocking the second talent set), there will be a lot less need to actually pay to unlearn your talents, so it won't be an issue.
I wouldn't be too surprised if the fees are removed completely, but the initial cost to train was something significant (1000g?). I mean, the respec fees were put in place to DISCOURAGE people from swapping around constantly. That's a mechanic they've learned they don't need, and in fact don't want now.
I am not completely sure. Not everybody has talented. And you can click the wrong button or once too much, and needing to reset the whole tree again. So dual spec without costs could be just for usability.
With 2x specs i wouldn't even mind with respec costs going up. I think i can find two specs for each character where i want to play them. E.g. PvP/PvP, Enh/Resto,
I stopped PvP/Arena as it cost me like 200G / week on respec, that problem is hopefully gone now.
Well, removing the fee to unlearn talents would kind of run counter to the whole point of the dual spec system, don't you think?
Not at all. The new system's designed to make it easy to swap, the old system it was not easy... cost was sorta a secondary reason here. If all they cared about was the hindrance the costs caused, they would have just removed them. This change is about making the talent system better across the board.
Besides that, they've not said anything about costs, aside from the obvious no cost to swap between your defined specs.
Hardly. If you can freely switch between two specs at no cost (other than the initial cost of unlocking the second talent set), there will be a lot less need to actually pay to unlearn your talents, so it won't be an issue.
at level 80 for toons who've been around the block a few times, sure. instead of charging 1000g (let's say) to unlock the 2nd tier, make the fee to wipe a talent spec be based on level (not necessarily linear).
for toons that are leveling up, it's nice to have a spec for soloing and a spec for group quests. or maybe a spec of pve and a spec of pvp. but the ideal specs could still change as you gain level and new talents open up.
if you let all players have two specs and just charged them when they wanted to change one or both of them, you'd basically be keeping the current model but opening up the dual spec to people who could really benefit from it without making it an absolute free-for-all.
if you charged a fixed fee for a 2nd spec "slot" the question is what that fee would be and if it was open to everybody regardless of level, how would a single fee make sense? 1000g for a level 10 toon to have two specs would mean that only players with sugardaddies would be able to dual spec.
I think you've misunderstood something somewhere, whether it was my post or something Blizzard posted about the dual spec system. Here's how it will work:
- You can pay a one-time fee to unlock a second, separate set of talent points. The last word I read on this was that it will cost 5000g.
- You can switch between your first and second talent sets without paying a fee, as long as you are near a Lexicon of Power.
- You will still have to pay a fee to unlearn talent points from either talent set. This fee will be exactly the same as it is now.
Dual speccing is intended to be a max-level feature. Blizzard isn't designing it around what makes sense for a level 10 character. A level 10 character doesn't need two specs. A level 45 fury warrior can tank a level-appropriate instance just fine, just as a level 45 shadow priest can heal an instance without too much difficulty. You could quite easily level all the way up to 80 without ever assigning a single talent point. Dual speccing is supposed to be something like epic flying -- nice to have at higher levels, but never a necessity, and never designed with the goal of everyone having it at every level.
The 5000g was someone spreading disinformation. They haven't said a word on the price.
Personally, I'd like for it to be available for lvl 68 to 80 characters. 68 because that's when you hit Northrend. There's not really any reason to run dungeons (and therefore have to respec) before then. But it does matter in Northrend before hitting lvl 80.
There are many people revisiting old dungeons for achievements and reputation, but all of this can be done at 80, where it is of course easier (and there's no more penalty on rep gains at higher levels). There's no reason to go there for drops, since the gear gets upgraded in Northrend. And if someone is well and truly intent on farming for something specific, they tend to do it at higher level to make it easier, not at the intended level. I'm sure there are a few people intent on doing dungeons at the level they're designed for, but let's be honest, they are a minority, and Blizzard designs for the majority.
When the next expansion comes around, shift the requirements to lvl 78 to 90.
Personally, I'd like for it to be available for lvl 68 to 80 characters. 68 because that's when you hit Northrend. There's not really any reason to run dungeons (and therefore have to respec) before then. But it does matter in Northrend before hitting lvl 80.
I disagree with this. There are a number of quests that end in instances, and the instances contain lore that players might want to see. Not doing any instances prior to 68 is generally a bad idea because party play is an integral part of WoW.
I think they could easily implement more than just two specs, and I think they might at least eventually (probably not right away). Maybe add them in like bank slots/gbank tabs with the more slots you have the more you pay. I think this will be an important feature that raiders as well as pvpers will need to evaluate and submit good feedback on. Now we get to wait for the PTR and other blue notes.
I disagree with this. There are a number of quests that end in instances, and the instances contain lore that players might want to see. Not doing any instances prior to 68 is generally a bad idea because party play is an integral part of WoW.
True for main toons (aka new players) but I doubt that's the case for alts. And I'm saying this even though I'm Loremaster on my main.
These quests can still be done at higher level though, without major impact on the rest. I think actually Northrend is the first expansion where lore actually matters and it makes sense to do it chronologically, so perhaps that won't hold true in future.
I do agree that party play is an integral part of WoW and new players should experience it before 68. As far as dual-specs go, I don't really have a solution to that, except for the fact that new players will likely end up getting run through by high-lvl guildies (though I know that does not apply to everyone, it still seems to be the way things go).
I didn't have a problem healing instances with a shadow priest - even in Northrend (but my gear was better than average with T6).
On my shaman as enh spec. i didn't have any problem healing any vanilla or TBC instances. However for woltk i wasn't able to heal an instance - nor did i encounter other shamans successfully healing off-spec. Every shaman i got hold of and asked if it is possible to heal off-spec said 'no'. So i think dual spec for level 70+ characters should be possible. Or have a condition similar to death knight creation. If you have a level 80 charater you are allowed to buy the sencond spec sooner.
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Curse PremiumBut this is a huge problem for Talented, which is already quite a big UI, if I have to add glyphs to it...
i'm sure you got room for 6 little buttons -- you don't really need the big circle thing.
i agree with others when they say it really could be way more useful for leveling -- having a solo spec vs a group spec. but it's something they are going to charge for so then the issue is paying the "level appropriate" amount of gold. it sounds like they're letting you buy a permanent ability to have a 2nd spec.
they really should just allow everybody to dual spec and charge a fixed fee for wiping your talents make that fixed fee based on toon level. the escalating respec fee seems counter to the idea of allowing people to have dual specs.
Hardly. If you can freely switch between two specs at no cost (other than the initial cost of unlocking the second talent set), there will be a lot less need to actually pay to unlearn your talents, so it won't be an issue.
With 2x specs i wouldn't even mind with respec costs going up. I think i can find two specs for each character where i want to play them. E.g. PvP/PvP, Enh/Resto,
I stopped PvP/Arena as it cost me like 200G / week on respec, that problem is hopefully gone now.
I think that's what it's going to be when the feature finally goes live.
Not at all. The new system's designed to make it easy to swap, the old system it was not easy... cost was sorta a secondary reason here. If all they cared about was the hindrance the costs caused, they would have just removed them. This change is about making the talent system better across the board.
Besides that, they've not said anything about costs, aside from the obvious no cost to swap between your defined specs.
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Forum ModeratorThat was pretty much my take on it as well after reading the interview.
at level 80 for toons who've been around the block a few times, sure. instead of charging 1000g (let's say) to unlock the 2nd tier, make the fee to wipe a talent spec be based on level (not necessarily linear).
for toons that are leveling up, it's nice to have a spec for soloing and a spec for group quests. or maybe a spec of pve and a spec of pvp. but the ideal specs could still change as you gain level and new talents open up.
if you let all players have two specs and just charged them when they wanted to change one or both of them, you'd basically be keeping the current model but opening up the dual spec to people who could really benefit from it without making it an absolute free-for-all.
if you charged a fixed fee for a 2nd spec "slot" the question is what that fee would be and if it was open to everybody regardless of level, how would a single fee make sense? 1000g for a level 10 toon to have two specs would mean that only players with sugardaddies would be able to dual spec.
- You can pay a one-time fee to unlock a second, separate set of talent points. The last word I read on this was that it will cost 5000g.
- You can switch between your first and second talent sets without paying a fee, as long as you are near a Lexicon of Power.
- You will still have to pay a fee to unlearn talent points from either talent set. This fee will be exactly the same as it is now.
Dual speccing is intended to be a max-level feature. Blizzard isn't designing it around what makes sense for a level 10 character. A level 10 character doesn't need two specs. A level 45 fury warrior can tank a level-appropriate instance just fine, just as a level 45 shadow priest can heal an instance without too much difficulty. You could quite easily level all the way up to 80 without ever assigning a single talent point. Dual speccing is supposed to be something like epic flying -- nice to have at higher levels, but never a necessity, and never designed with the goal of everyone having it at every level.
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Curse PremiumIt seems unlikely at this point, even if a lot of players asked for it.
But the fee should be significantly lower that 5000 gold, although no price as been fixed yet.
Personally, I'd like for it to be available for lvl 68 to 80 characters. 68 because that's when you hit Northrend. There's not really any reason to run dungeons (and therefore have to respec) before then. But it does matter in Northrend before hitting lvl 80.
There are many people revisiting old dungeons for achievements and reputation, but all of this can be done at 80, where it is of course easier (and there's no more penalty on rep gains at higher levels). There's no reason to go there for drops, since the gear gets upgraded in Northrend. And if someone is well and truly intent on farming for something specific, they tend to do it at higher level to make it easier, not at the intended level. I'm sure there are a few people intent on doing dungeons at the level they're designed for, but let's be honest, they are a minority, and Blizzard designs for the majority.
When the next expansion comes around, shift the requirements to lvl 78 to 90.
Anyway, just my thoughts on this.
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Curse PremiumI disagree with this. There are a number of quests that end in instances, and the instances contain lore that players might want to see. Not doing any instances prior to 68 is generally a bad idea because party play is an integral part of WoW.
True for main toons (aka new players) but I doubt that's the case for alts. And I'm saying this even though I'm Loremaster on my main.
These quests can still be done at higher level though, without major impact on the rest. I think actually Northrend is the first expansion where lore actually matters and it makes sense to do it chronologically, so perhaps that won't hold true in future.
I do agree that party play is an integral part of WoW and new players should experience it before 68. As far as dual-specs go, I don't really have a solution to that, except for the fact that new players will likely end up getting run through by high-lvl guildies (though I know that does not apply to everyone, it still seems to be the way things go).
I didn't have a problem healing instances with a shadow priest - even in Northrend (but my gear was better than average with T6).
On my shaman as enh spec. i didn't have any problem healing any vanilla or TBC instances. However for woltk i wasn't able to heal an instance - nor did i encounter other shamans successfully healing off-spec. Every shaman i got hold of and asked if it is possible to heal off-spec said 'no'. So i think dual spec for level 70+ characters should be possible. Or have a condition similar to death knight creation. If you have a level 80 charater you are allowed to buy the sencond spec sooner.