There's an ignore forum script in place in the UserCP -> Edit Options.
Considering the Warhammer forum has nothing to do with the WoWAce forum...having us ignore it instead of it just not being there to begin with seems silly :)
- There is no "preview" function on the quick-reply form.
- There is no "move thread" function while viewing the thread. This is only available on the list of threads (view forum). Rather counterintuitive to read a thread, decide it is misplaced, and have to go back to the index to move it. SMF had this function right in the thread itself.
- Moving a thread requires me to re-enter my password. Normally this wouldn't be an "annoyance", but since I already have to re-enter my password (and username) every 2-5 minutes, it is. :(
Phanx: granted, I'm not a mod here and can't see for myself, but is "Move Thread" not in the drop-down Thread Tools list at the top page of every thread?
This is how I see the forums being shared:
Yes, I **slightly** remember that being said, but it would have been nice to make it 100% crystal clear before the transfer. iirc, there was a whole lot of confusion going on about what was being shared with Curse and how separate wowace was going to be, and I think the forums just got lost in all of it (except the fact that we didn't want to lose anything).
Curseforge is going to be getting a lot more attention now, since it's the *only* way to upload a mod to Curse (besides pushing from the new wowace, of course). With that new attention will come more forum traffic - traffic that will deal with Curseforge and the projects hosted solely on Curseforge.
Yes, Curse itself has separate forums for users - this is a good thing - a very good thing. But - in the same way wowace is not showing curseforge forums, I fully believe that curseforge should not show wowace forums. WoWAce isn't showing CurseForge forums because they are separate sites, separate communities, and separate projects. CurseForge should not show wowace forums because it is a separate site, separate community, and separate projects.
Sure, there is some bleedover from authors and power users that have used both sites in the past, but... We are going to see people posting in the wowace forums asking for help with curseforge projects, and we will be seeing people posting in wowace project threads asking where to get them because they don't see them on curseforge.
Actually, I also just noticed that announcements (and polls) are exactly the same for both sites, also.
There was trepidation by many because wowace was going to Curse. I wasn't one of the nay sayers, because I was one of those who had seen the need for change for a long time, and at least something was happening finally. But we were always assured that wowace would stay separate - the integrity of the community would remain. Now, it's listed as a Curse core site, and the separation in the project database is the only thing besides a skin that keeps it separate from curseforge.
And, yes... I logged out of Curseforge, which logged me out of wowace. When I clicked post, it made me log in again, which took me to the main forum page, and didn't actually log me in. A second login took me back to the main forum page (actually logged in this time), then I had to navigate my way back to this thread. It's a good thing that I had a hunch and copied my post first. :p
Phanx: granted, I'm not a mod here and can't see for myself, but is "Move Thread" not in the drop-down Thread Tools list at the top page of every thread?
Aha, so there is. I was looking in the "Moderation" menu at the bottom of the page. It's quite confusing having related functions split into arbitrary categories and placed at opposite ends of the page. I've never moderated or administered a vB forum before... so far I am not impressed. SMF, phpBB, and PunBB are all many times over easier to work with, both as a user and a moderator, IMO.
Curseforge is going to be getting a lot more attention now, since it's the *only* way to upload a mod to Curse (besides pushing from the new wowace, of course). With that new attention will come more forum traffic - traffic that will deal with Curseforge and the projects hosted solely on Curseforge.
Yeah, due to the fact that I can't upload files to projects managed on WowAce, I won't be using the project management here. I'm using another repo for my development, and don't feel like maintaining two copies to push to a second repo. Previously, I did do this, because the only way to get my addons available for the slavering hordes of WAU users was to host it on the WowAce SVN. Now, though, the Curse Client will get addons hosted from CurseForge as well as WowAce, so I can just use the "upload file" feature and save myself the hassle of remembering to copy/paste and commit again with every change.
Hey guys, I just want to say that I'll be tackling this in the morning. Due to the lack of comments about it after I made the announcement I didn't realize that it was such a big deal for you all.
However, exhaustion tells me that I'm in no state to start work on this at the moment.
I'm also going to look at making at least optional that we can have variable width (in at least the forums for now, maybe long term for the site itself).
So I'll work on this in the morning. I'm sorry guys :( Didn't mean to let you all down on these things.
Don't worry about letting us down. If none of us speak up, you just don't know. So we speak, and you are made aware of it. Go sleep, you need it badly. But don't beat yourself up over the fact that some of us are singing some stuff in choir. (On key or off key that's for someone else to judge)
The login redirecting you to index is due to the Curse Auth plugin, as is the flaky login issue.
Blame Kaelten :p
I think this is actually making it so I cannot moderate threads due to the "log in again to confirm" thing. I tried to remove a post from a thread and could not...
No, nothing bad, the post just had no context after moving the thread to the correct forum.
That would be very nice :)
I can't get to "View last UNREAD post" only "View last post", which I am sure is extremely hard for visually impaired folks.
Yes, that's a significant issue IMO. Even the subscriptions page has no link to go to the last unread post in a thread, only to the most recent post in the thread. With active threads like "Post Your UI", I'm sure I'll miss a lot of posts simply because I don't have the time or the will to read through 5 pages trying to remember what I've read and what I haven't read.
Also, the tiny icons that are used are very unfriendly for those with poor visual acuity. SMF was very friendly in this regard -- the whole date of the last post was a link to the post in the topic list, or the whole "originally posted by X" text was a link to the quoted post. vB opts for not making these text strings links, and placing a tiny icon after the text. Natural text links are always better than superfluous icon links, even if you don't have any visual or motor impairments. They're easier to use, more accessible, and don't clutter up the page with things that don't need to be there.
Another (minor) issue that there are no navigation links at the bottom of pages. This means that after I'm done reading a thread, I have to go back to the top of the page to navigate back to the thread index or forum index. When you have pages that are many screens tall, it's just good practice to duplicate the most likely navigation options at the bottom.
Breadcrumbs at the bottom would do fine, I think. And a linkie to New Posts.
Guess you missed my post in the other thread: There is an icon to the left of the thread name which takes you to the first new post. :) I agree with Phanx: This should be textual, NOT an icon. I wouldn't have known it was there had I not moused over it and saw the popup.
Guess you missed my post in the other thread: There is an icon to the left of the thread name which takes you to the first new post. :) I agree with Phanx: This should be textual, NOT an icon. I wouldn't have known it was there had I not moused over it and saw the popup.
I did miss your post. I would be fine with an icon in this limited case if the icon were at the end of the thread title where it were more noticable. Before you mentioned it, I hadn't even noticed that icon. I probably saw it, assumed it was just another superfluous icon, and dismissed it, all without consciously thinking about it.
I did miss your post. I would be fine with an icon in this limited case if the icon were at the end of the thread title where it were more noticable. Before you mentioned it, I hadn't even noticed that icon. I probably saw it, assumed it was just another superfluous icon, and dismissed it, all without consciously thinking about it.
Yup! Without the mouseover tip, I wouldn't have known/saw it myself.
Yup! Without the mouseover tip, I wouldn't have known/saw it myself.
IMO if something isn't clearly "usable" (its purpose doesn't need to be obvious, but it should be obvious that it has a purpose) without happening to mouse over it to get a tooltip, it's a serious problem.
That's probably my biggest issue with vBulletin forums and Curse websites alike -- both seem to design with the goal of making everything as complex as possible, with the commonly used functions requiring navigating scripted dropdown menus and/or multiple page loads, with nothing clearly labeled with natural language or an obvious graphic. When I'm using a website, or browsing a forum, my focus should be on the content, not on figuring out how to get to the content or perform expected tasks.
A great example of this is the quick reply form when viewing a topic. Nearly every forum I have ever used has a "Submit" button and a "Preview" button. What does vB have? "Submit" and "Go Advanced". What the hell does "Go Advanced" mean? It's a vB-specific term that has absolutely no meaning to someone unfamiliar with vB. It's certainly not obvious that it gives a preview of what you've entered in the text area. Even when you figure out what it does mean (switch from this form to a form with additional formatting helper buttons) it still doesn't say anything about a preview. I'd be willing to bet that most people who are using quick-reply forms are using that instead of a full reply page because they don't need all of that extended UI to insert BBCode. If they wanted it, they'd just click "Reply" to go to the reply page instead of typing their post and then going to another page to apply formatting. "Preview" is a more natural label for the most common use of this function, and is immediately obvious to anyone who's ever used any forum.
I'm sure many of these things I'm complaining about are hard-coded into the vBulletin core software, and can't be addressed through the theming system. I don't know if vBulletin's license allows you to make modifications to its core files, so it may be that there's simply nothing you could do to make it more accessible and user-friendly even if you had the time and desire to do so. However, I'll keep pointing things out, because it seems like the people who design web pages for Curse have never thought about any of this stuff. (At least that's been my impression using Curse-related websites... and my visual issues are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.)
Another (minor) issue that there are no navigation links at the bottom of pages. This means that after I'm done reading a thread, I have to go back to the top of the page to navigate back to the thread index or forum index. When you have pages that are many screens tall, it's just good practice to duplicate the most likely navigation options at the bottom.
Quoting this issue, and I disagree that it's minor. Having to scroll up on every page to return to the parent fora is a pain in the ass, especially when I'm viewing 40 posts per page.
Being a regular on another vBulletin forum im used to that annoyance (and the settings here makes it atleast a bit less of a hassle to use) but its one of those things i would realy like to see.
(basicly a mirror of the full navigations and thread tools at the bottom of the page)
Quoting this issue, and I disagree that it's minor. Having to scroll up on every page to return to the parent fora is a pain in the ass, especially when I'm viewing 40 posts per page.
Until they fix that issue, you can hit the "Home" key to return to the top of the page.
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Blame Kaelten :p
And, vBulletin has no [ tt ] tag, which is rather irritating. :(
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AdminConsidering the Warhammer forum has nothing to do with the WoWAce forum...having us ignore it instead of it just not being there to begin with seems silly :)
- There is no "preview" function on the quick-reply form.
- There is no "move thread" function while viewing the thread. This is only available on the list of threads (view forum). Rather counterintuitive to read a thread, decide it is misplaced, and have to go back to the index to move it. SMF had this function right in the thread itself.
- Moving a thread requires me to re-enter my password. Normally this wouldn't be an "annoyance", but since I already have to re-enter my password (and username) every 2-5 minutes, it is. :(
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Curse PremiumThis is how I see the forums being shared:
Yes, I **slightly** remember that being said, but it would have been nice to make it 100% crystal clear before the transfer. iirc, there was a whole lot of confusion going on about what was being shared with Curse and how separate wowace was going to be, and I think the forums just got lost in all of it (except the fact that we didn't want to lose anything).
Curseforge is going to be getting a lot more attention now, since it's the *only* way to upload a mod to Curse (besides pushing from the new wowace, of course). With that new attention will come more forum traffic - traffic that will deal with Curseforge and the projects hosted solely on Curseforge.
Yes, Curse itself has separate forums for users - this is a good thing - a very good thing. But - in the same way wowace is not showing curseforge forums, I fully believe that curseforge should not show wowace forums. WoWAce isn't showing CurseForge forums because they are separate sites, separate communities, and separate projects. CurseForge should not show wowace forums because it is a separate site, separate community, and separate projects.
Sure, there is some bleedover from authors and power users that have used both sites in the past, but... We are going to see people posting in the wowace forums asking for help with curseforge projects, and we will be seeing people posting in wowace project threads asking where to get them because they don't see them on curseforge.
Actually, I also just noticed that announcements (and polls) are exactly the same for both sites, also.
There was trepidation by many because wowace was going to Curse. I wasn't one of the nay sayers, because I was one of those who had seen the need for change for a long time, and at least something was happening finally. But we were always assured that wowace would stay separate - the integrity of the community would remain. Now, it's listed as a Curse core site, and the separation in the project database is the only thing besides a skin that keeps it separate from curseforge.
And, yes... I logged out of Curseforge, which logged me out of wowace. When I clicked post, it made me log in again, which took me to the main forum page, and didn't actually log me in. A second login took me back to the main forum page (actually logged in this time), then I had to navigate my way back to this thread. It's a good thing that I had a hunch and copied my post first. :p
Aha, so there is. I was looking in the "Moderation" menu at the bottom of the page. It's quite confusing having related functions split into arbitrary categories and placed at opposite ends of the page. I've never moderated or administered a vB forum before... so far I am not impressed. SMF, phpBB, and PunBB are all many times over easier to work with, both as a user and a moderator, IMO.
Yeah, due to the fact that I can't upload files to projects managed on WowAce, I won't be using the project management here. I'm using another repo for my development, and don't feel like maintaining two copies to push to a second repo. Previously, I did do this, because the only way to get my addons available for the slavering hordes of WAU users was to host it on the WowAce SVN. Now, though, the Curse Client will get addons hosted from CurseForge as well as WowAce, so I can just use the "upload file" feature and save myself the hassle of remembering to copy/paste and commit again with every change.
However, exhaustion tells me that I'm in no state to start work on this at the moment.
I'm also going to look at making at least optional that we can have variable width (in at least the forums for now, maybe long term for the site itself).
So I'll work on this in the morning. I'm sorry guys :( Didn't mean to let you all down on these things.
Don't worry about letting us down. If none of us speak up, you just don't know. So we speak, and you are made aware of it. Go sleep, you need it badly. But don't beat yourself up over the fact that some of us are singing some stuff in choir. (On key or off key that's for someone else to judge)
I think this is actually making it so I cannot moderate threads due to the "log in again to confirm" thing. I tried to remove a post from a thread and could not...
No, nothing bad, the post just had no context after moving the thread to the correct forum.
Yes, that's a significant issue IMO. Even the subscriptions page has no link to go to the last unread post in a thread, only to the most recent post in the thread. With active threads like "Post Your UI", I'm sure I'll miss a lot of posts simply because I don't have the time or the will to read through 5 pages trying to remember what I've read and what I haven't read.
Also, the tiny icons that are used are very unfriendly for those with poor visual acuity. SMF was very friendly in this regard -- the whole date of the last post was a link to the post in the topic list, or the whole "originally posted by X" text was a link to the quoted post. vB opts for not making these text strings links, and placing a tiny icon after the text. Natural text links are always better than superfluous icon links, even if you don't have any visual or motor impairments. They're easier to use, more accessible, and don't clutter up the page with things that don't need to be there.
Another (minor) issue that there are no navigation links at the bottom of pages. This means that after I'm done reading a thread, I have to go back to the top of the page to navigate back to the thread index or forum index. When you have pages that are many screens tall, it's just good practice to duplicate the most likely navigation options at the bottom.
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AdminGuess you missed my post in the other thread: There is an icon to the left of the thread name which takes you to the first new post. :) I agree with Phanx: This should be textual, NOT an icon. I wouldn't have known it was there had I not moused over it and saw the popup.
I did miss your post. I would be fine with an icon in this limited case if the icon were at the end of the thread title where it were more noticable. Before you mentioned it, I hadn't even noticed that icon. I probably saw it, assumed it was just another superfluous icon, and dismissed it, all without consciously thinking about it.
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AdminYup! Without the mouseover tip, I wouldn't have known/saw it myself.
IMO if something isn't clearly "usable" (its purpose doesn't need to be obvious, but it should be obvious that it has a purpose) without happening to mouse over it to get a tooltip, it's a serious problem.
That's probably my biggest issue with vBulletin forums and Curse websites alike -- both seem to design with the goal of making everything as complex as possible, with the commonly used functions requiring navigating scripted dropdown menus and/or multiple page loads, with nothing clearly labeled with natural language or an obvious graphic. When I'm using a website, or browsing a forum, my focus should be on the content, not on figuring out how to get to the content or perform expected tasks.
A great example of this is the quick reply form when viewing a topic. Nearly every forum I have ever used has a "Submit" button and a "Preview" button. What does vB have? "Submit" and "Go Advanced". What the hell does "Go Advanced" mean? It's a vB-specific term that has absolutely no meaning to someone unfamiliar with vB. It's certainly not obvious that it gives a preview of what you've entered in the text area. Even when you figure out what it does mean (switch from this form to a form with additional formatting helper buttons) it still doesn't say anything about a preview. I'd be willing to bet that most people who are using quick-reply forms are using that instead of a full reply page because they don't need all of that extended UI to insert BBCode. If they wanted it, they'd just click "Reply" to go to the reply page instead of typing their post and then going to another page to apply formatting. "Preview" is a more natural label for the most common use of this function, and is immediately obvious to anyone who's ever used any forum.
I'm sure many of these things I'm complaining about are hard-coded into the vBulletin core software, and can't be addressed through the theming system. I don't know if vBulletin's license allows you to make modifications to its core files, so it may be that there's simply nothing you could do to make it more accessible and user-friendly even if you had the time and desire to do so. However, I'll keep pointing things out, because it seems like the people who design web pages for Curse have never thought about any of this stuff. (At least that's been my impression using Curse-related websites... and my visual issues are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.)
.. ah and a "go to top" button (on every post or bottom).
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Curse PremiumQuoting this issue, and I disagree that it's minor. Having to scroll up on every page to return to the parent fora is a pain in the ass, especially when I'm viewing 40 posts per page.
(basicly a mirror of the full navigations and thread tools at the bottom of the page)
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AdminUntil they fix that issue, you can hit the "Home" key to return to the top of the page.