The only fact you can't disregard is that the user base was simply a thousand times higher the number of developers and that's what made Wowace such a success.
It offered a friendly client, community support and a service that worked decently.
Developers that are making use of Curse's resources instead of Wowace's are only being allowed to do so because Curse intends to make a profit out of it's user base otherwise this change wouldn't haven't been necessary.
So to sum it up, your user base regardless of how computer illiterate is, is equally important to your developer base, so screaming "This is a community for developers screw you" as opposed to "We apologize for any inconvenience the new client, website, forum, etc are causing, unfortunately we had an alpha/beta period but due to unforeseen complications things took a turn for the worse, <here is our project plan to address it> and this is the channel for our user base to voice their opinions [link to curse forums / whatever]" is too naive from a project management perspective, because ultimately you're shitting on top of the guys that are going to support/found your company.
Just the 2 cents of someone that is a software engineer and also a project manager that used to leech of wowace's resources.
Anyhow, I hope things eventually settle down and we have things as stable as they used to be =)
Ace was a success for it's target audience before the users came on masse for the updater. Some of us don't consider the flood of users driving up bandwidth costs to the point that another solution had to be found to be a "success". Frankly the downloads and auto-updater were a failure on many levels, the only real success was it's popularity. But that's all Curse's problem now. I hope Ace can get back to being primarily a developer forum instead of addon tech support.
If you look back through my 5,000+ posts, you will see that most of them (especially in the beginning) are support related. The devs thanked me for that, because that left them time to code. I came to wowace as a user, as did many people. But that still doesn't discredit what I wrote in my thread about why the change was needed.
Remember, there are two kinds of users. Let's put it this way... There are ones that give to the community (beta testing, posting bug reports, helping with translations, etc) and ones that only take from the community (running WAU right before a raid, then crying on the forums "WAU broke my UI!", demanding features and support, etc).
Remember, there are two kinds of users. Let's put it this way... There are ones that give to the community (beta testing, posting bug reports, helping with translations, etc) and ones that only take from the community (running WAU right before a raid, then crying on the forums "WAU broke my UI!", demanding features and support, etc).
That's why I try to differentiate between end-users and L["users"]
...the latter being a multi-level joke :D
There are many different users. And the Recount thread has been heavy all the time on input. The vast majority of it has been helpful in some way and the amount of stuff that I didn't feel like handling was negligible. In Seerah's term the vast majority of users that come across my path are helpful and give some, not only take. So much so that I hardly would make the distinction.
I have no problem with the forum culture staying the way it was in that regard. The fact that many many people use the addon and will come to report problems has if anything been a good thing in my view.
There has long been a call by some to have a developer (or developer + tester) only environment. I can see that some (not I) may want that. I wonder why the solution to this isn't to simply spawn a new heavily moderated web-forum where the people who do like that kind of stuff are in change and invite and kick per their pleasing. (I'd be kicked so I wouldn't bother signing ;))
That would really solve the problem. Those that like that idea, can happily camp there. Those (like me) who actually like things to be open to every friendly soul, can stay here. Or we can sit on both chairs... problem solved.
I do understand the need to earn money. I do understand why it is not possible to run something like wowace on a totally free basis. So I do understand the "merge". Curse gain allot on this deal.
The problem is the timing. The ace updater stopped working now. In one week we will get patch 3.0.2. It is either stupidity or greed that disables the ace updater at this point.
I myself are trying to be prepared, dont want to feel like when you meet Illidan the first time :) So I started to look for a solution. I installed the curse client. I have been working with It for a long time and I did not understand the curse client. I pressed update and I found loads of my addons cleand out and I had more errors when I logged in then bug sack could handle. It did not seam to support external libraries. With libs in all addons you get souch a big overhead when starting wow it is not an option.
I am willing to pay, but only for something that works. Then I read the post saying "update your addons manually". All in all I got really annoyed and I dont think I am alone, that is not a good start for a company. Breaking something that worked just before the new patch comes. It might not have been perfect but for the users it worked. I were hoping to kill killjaden before wotlk, but I think this update will break so many addons and the lack of working updaters is going to mean troubble. I am afraid we will loose a week.
I'm back to manually updating.I'm error free again.It's the CC that is breaking them, if I manually d/l I don't have errors, if I use the CC I get errors....but , in time I'm sure it will work out.
3.0 will NOT be the addon apocalypse everyone's making it out to be. About the only addons that have had any significant changes made under the hood are actionbars (they just became much easier to do) and anything that tracks the player's buffs only (instead of tracking all units using UnitBuff)
Besides that, the good devs out there already have pushed out releases that work on both live and beta, so you shouldn't need to update on patch day at all.
*edit* oh and mount addons, duh. But again, there's already 3.0 versions (and lots of new addons) out for this.
3.0 is definitely not an addon apocalypse, I have a lot of addons both public and private and in the worst case the mods needed minor tweaks but largely functioned fine.
3.0 is definitely not an addon apocalypse, I have a lot of addons both public and private and in the worst case the mods needed minor tweaks but largely functioned fine.
All the AtlasLoot work was self inflicted :-S
All players out there can make minor tweaks to their addons?
A minor tweak means that the users of that addon has to update it.
I copied my addons to my ptr client and I have to say that I saw the need for loads of "minor tweaking". Even is there is only one line that has to be updated in 50 addons, 50 addons has to be updated. If you need to download 50 addons it will take time.
I remember 2.4 going incredibly smoothly. Also 2.0.1 wasn't a huge deal. I'm pretty confident that once 3.0.x goes live a lot of addons will be in good shape. Many devs who are actively maintaining their stuff have been on beta/ptr so they had time to update and test.
Yeah a few addons may not work, but that more likely is a sign of the addon lacking an active maintainer at this point. Some will find new maintained, some will find replacements. Nothing too worrisome.
Besides API changes, the huge thing about 2.0 was that all addons with a toc interface version number less than 20000 were marked as incompatible. This will not happen for 3.0.
Lots of people will be updating on patch day, and I expect there to be a rash of "wowace sold out!", "the curse updater sucks!", "i'm quitting wow because of the wowace changes!" type posts. Then, after a week or so, it will die down again.
I wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of the wowace updater people moved to say, the wowmatrix updater, which makes me a bit sad.
I'm also expecting, "I hate you for killing Bongos!" type posts, too, but that's not relevant :P
I'm also expecting, "I hate you for killing Bongos!" type posts, too, but that's not relevant :P
They can go and DIAF. I'm one of those users that are not die-hard, if an addon doesn't work i spend 5-10 min looking for alternatives that fit my playstile.
One of the bigger breaking changes is the arguments to most of Blizz's framexml functions. This probably bites people more than anything, but it's very easy to fix. There were also several combat log changes which were not backward compatible. Basically you just have to make sure you're only using add-ons that are being actively maintained, as they will almost definitely have been migrated to 3.0 already.
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It offered a friendly client, community support and a service that worked decently.
Developers that are making use of Curse's resources instead of Wowace's are only being allowed to do so because Curse intends to make a profit out of it's user base otherwise this change wouldn't haven't been necessary.
So to sum it up, your user base regardless of how computer illiterate is, is equally important to your developer base, so screaming "This is a community for developers screw you" as opposed to "We apologize for any inconvenience the new client, website, forum, etc are causing, unfortunately we had an alpha/beta period but due to unforeseen complications things took a turn for the worse, <here is our project plan to address it> and this is the channel for our user base to voice their opinions [link to curse forums / whatever]" is too naive from a project management perspective, because ultimately you're shitting on top of the guys that are going to support/found your company.
Just the 2 cents of someone that is a software engineer and also a project manager that used to leech of wowace's resources.
Anyhow, I hope things eventually settle down and we have things as stable as they used to be =)
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Curse PremiumRemember, there are two kinds of users. Let's put it this way... There are ones that give to the community (beta testing, posting bug reports, helping with translations, etc) and ones that only take from the community (running WAU right before a raid, then crying on the forums "WAU broke my UI!", demanding features and support, etc).
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AdminThat's why I try to differentiate between end-users and L["users"]
...the latter being a multi-level joke :D
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AdminWhy must you melt my brain?
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Curse PremiumBinary is easy once you understand that 10 + 1 = 11.
I have no problem with the forum culture staying the way it was in that regard. The fact that many many people use the addon and will come to report problems has if anything been a good thing in my view.
There has long been a call by some to have a developer (or developer + tester) only environment. I can see that some (not I) may want that. I wonder why the solution to this isn't to simply spawn a new heavily moderated web-forum where the people who do like that kind of stuff are in change and invite and kick per their pleasing. (I'd be kicked so I wouldn't bother signing ;))
That would really solve the problem. Those that like that idea, can happily camp there. Those (like me) who actually like things to be open to every friendly soul, can stay here. Or we can sit on both chairs... problem solved.
The problem is the timing. The ace updater stopped working now. In one week we will get patch 3.0.2. It is either stupidity or greed that disables the ace updater at this point.
I myself are trying to be prepared, dont want to feel like when you meet Illidan the first time :) So I started to look for a solution. I installed the curse client. I have been working with It for a long time and I did not understand the curse client. I pressed update and I found loads of my addons cleand out and I had more errors when I logged in then bug sack could handle. It did not seam to support external libraries. With libs in all addons you get souch a big overhead when starting wow it is not an option.
I am willing to pay, but only for something that works. Then I read the post saying "update your addons manually". All in all I got really annoyed and I dont think I am alone, that is not a good start for a company. Breaking something that worked just before the new patch comes. It might not have been perfect but for the users it worked. I were hoping to kill killjaden before wotlk, but I think this update will break so many addons and the lack of working updaters is going to mean troubble. I am afraid we will loose a week.
Besides that, the good devs out there already have pushed out releases that work on both live and beta, so you shouldn't need to update on patch day at all.
*edit* oh and mount addons, duh. But again, there's already 3.0 versions (and lots of new addons) out for this.
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Curse PremiumAll the AtlasLoot work was self inflicted :-S
All players out there can make minor tweaks to their addons?
A minor tweak means that the users of that addon has to update it.
I copied my addons to my ptr client and I have to say that I saw the need for loads of "minor tweaking". Even is there is only one line that has to be updated in 50 addons, 50 addons has to be updated. If you need to download 50 addons it will take time.
Yeah a few addons may not work, but that more likely is a sign of the addon lacking an active maintainer at this point. Some will find new maintained, some will find replacements. Nothing too worrisome.
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Curse PremiumI wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of the wowace updater people moved to say, the wowmatrix updater, which makes me a bit sad.
I'm also expecting, "I hate you for killing Bongos!" type posts, too, but that's not relevant :P
They can go and DIAF. I'm one of those users that are not die-hard, if an addon doesn't work i spend 5-10 min looking for alternatives that fit my playstile.
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