Really, I think this comes down to the fact that WowAce, not Ace, should be the one being advertised, if anything, to both users and developers. A WowAce mod has easy updating (and uploading), quick bug fixes and translations (thanks to the svn), and a strong, dedicated community.
True; there are several mods around which use the Ace framework but have nothing to do with the Wowace community, and they really have no advantages over any other mod. What makes many Wowace mods worth looking for is the community, forums, SVN, and distribution mechanisms - none of which actually even requires that the Ace framework be used. (In fact, it's not uncommon to see a "Wowace" mod which uses Ace but probably shouldn't...)
Also, recently, we have addons that are on the SVN but don't use Ace at all.
personally I think this is great!
When you get down to it wowace.com and Ace2 ARE seperate entities there is a lot of blur between the two at times and they feed off one another. But usage or membership to either is not mutually dependent on the other.
Its my goal that as a website we continue to grow and have more and more membership beyond just Ace developers. In my mind saying that a non-aced mod here is off topic is about like saying something is off topic in barrens chat.
lmao... please don't start the Chuck Norris crap here lol... horde barrens scared me for life.
Darn you all now I really cant remember why I wanted to respond... oh yea it was about the zips.
Granted, I know that having all these various cross platform updater's and cross site update programs is helpful and such, I fail to see how it is a requirement.
I mean don't get me wrong I am as lazy as the next guy but since day one I have always searched various sites for addons.
Curse, worldofwar, guru, wowinterface and all for various reasons and some times certain mods. I never really found it to be a hassle to download all the files manually. that being said I do think at least for wowace.com WAU is a good thing. Since the majority of my mods are addon (soley for easy of support/updates) it makes things easier I don't quite see why everyone is up in arms about what files are or arn't hosted on a site.
(i know its a bit off topic but it was a long weekend and i figure a slight change might be nice).
#1 - Multiple developers who tend to pickup and maintain each others mods if someone just decides to stop developing.
#2 - Quick updates and fixes post patches
#3 - Right place right time on many occasions (ora2, grid, sRaidFrames, Omen)
Remember when ctraid was the dominant raid frame addon, in fact all ct mods where highly popular in general (mail/core/bars etc). Except every major patch they seemed to break, they often didn't get fixed very quickly. Worse a lot of the time their site was overwhelmed (wow patch day affect), traditional http is a horrible delivery mechanism for files under that sort of load. Grid and sRaidframes were pretty solid at TBC launch and frequently updated. PerfectRaid wasn't "ready" for a long long time. Right place right time.
Furthermore there were some major performance problems with ct_raid in the past and recently they don't seem to have implemented the fix/workaround for the unit_name_update spam which gives some users a poor experience in battlegrounds.
My guildmate Xinhuan identified a problem debugging xperl, I posted about it in a thread on these forums, one of the many "ace2" developers saw it and sRaidFrames, Grid, aguf, pitbull users benefited less than 1 day later. You just don't get that kind of response with single developer "traditional" mods most of the time.
Right now, I'm using Thrae's "dongle" version of TinyTip (OMG it's not ACE!!!!), there's still the "ace2" svn version on files.wowace.com. I like the addon I've used it for a very long time after switching from af_tooltip.
I don't miss the options fluff that's not in "dongle" version. However right now when I mouse over frames (party, target etc) is places the tooltip in the default location instead of at the cursor. I've posted a request on his google code issue page, I see other requests there unanswered.
I guess I'll wait awhile but I suspect he's busy nothing will happen and I'll have to switch back to the ace2 version. If I have a problem with the ace2 version, I can go fix it myself or make a post and it's very likely someone else will make the change.
Now, the Ace2 "framework" does seem to be becoming a bit "fat" with too many libraries (that don't do alot) however the sheer usability and speed at which things are fixed/changed and the fact that if bob stops developing his addon anyone with svn access can maintain it or commit patches posted on the forums... well that just straight up owns.
Of course, all those benefits come at a cost.. I look at how overcomplicated some addon's have become trying to do too much, I think the amount of small problems with Pitbull are because it does too much and has way to many modules. That's a serious con of have multiple developers and a non singular vision. What happened to small addons that do one thing really well?
PS: Anyone who thinks the svn/files.wowace.com and wowaceupdater aren't major major factors in the popularity of ace2 mods is deluded.
@Ragnor -- TinyTip's core does not use Dongle. It uses no framework, as it does not need one. All extra features will be in an addon called "TinyTipModuleCore" and "TinyTipModules", both of which use Dongle. Neither are ready even for the SVN -- I've been slacking off. Anyway, as for your particular issue, it is one of configuration, not a bug. You must change "FAnchor" to "CURSOR" if you want it anchored to your cursor when mousing over units in a frame. Usually people don't want this for frame units, as it'll overlap the frame and/or ones above/below depending on the position. You'll have to set offsets for your own UI.
As for the other bugs listed there...eh, they're all fixed, I just haven't gotten around to removing them. Again, call me lazy.
So...no, TinyTip itself does not use Dongle, nor Ace.
wow 80? I run a good bit of mods but mines only around 20 or 25
Running (excluding library-folders) ~60 addons here, memory-usage is 30MB when I log in.
And it's only that high because of ItemSync and KCI2, I suppose :)
As for the general discussion...
The whole fighting and siding which ensures among the userbase is childish.
I guess the "easy way" would be to make sure Dongle and Ace2 are serving different purposes. To that end Ace2 would need to be more optimized and minimized (someone mentioned it's bigger than it could be), with Dongle being the "super-slim-but-all-in-one" version.
So addons could use Dongle if they "just want" functionality, and Ace2-libraries if an author wants to manually sort which libraries they use (but gets extended functionality, especially larger addons would use this I suppose).
This way there is a ground for a rivalry (in code-efficiency), but there's also a clear distinction ultimately, which would hopefully shoot down user-siding.
The fonts/textures provided by SharedMedia(Lib) don't eat any memory at all (besides the string cost) since the library only provides the file names and as long as you don't use the files they wont be loaded at all.
SharedMediaLib is done using the Ace2 library framework but theoreticaly I think it would be possible with any library framework though Ace2's custom events come in handy when it comes to LoD addons injecting new media into the library.
to many people, wowace is simply the place to get "Ace2 addons" and support for them. The main reason is most likely that the iirc the page started as developer page for Ace and later Ace2 and as soon as the rumor on files.wowace.com spread, also became the main download page (with many/most people not knowing that they in factdont get releases but development versions).
I don't see a lot of harm in WoWAce becomming more and more a community page since imho it's still focused on coding. And for those authors that are willing to become a part of the community, I also don't see any harm with them uploading there addons to the SVN even if they don't use Ace2 (since not using it in some points sometimes proves that these guys know what they are doing ;) ).
I don't have any problems with Dongle as I also use some addons that are using it as a basement since I trust those that wrote it wrt knowing what they do.
The main problem is when people start argueing about which is "better" (Ace2/Dongle/none) though ther isn't a god way to give a general answer since it depends on your setup and as long as everything is performing fine I don't care if an implementation using the other one would have been .5% faster or such ;)
I myself didn't code with Dongle yet since I'm too muc used to all the libs around me but well, about a year ago I also hadn't coded with Ace, yet...
IMO, this whole problem wouldn't exist if we could host non-ace mods on the svn and just write 'AddOn from wowace.com' in the notes field so users would know where to go to update it. The updater and the fact that you don't need to open lua to figure out how to open a mod's options menu is what made ace so popular.
Well anyway now that we have made the clear separation between wowace (svn, website, irc, the whole bunch) and Ace2, and having identified the problem that there are way too many non technical users that expect addons in the wowace.com svn trunk to just work, here's an idea:
Make your (our) own addon release site.
We could have an expanded categorized version of files.wowace.com on the _front_ page. One that uses svn tags for zips.
Get everyone into the routine of tagging release versions
State possible support is only for release versions, trunk debugging is appreciated
Get WAU to work with the svn tags
Because libs are tagged, stuff will get more stable
besides the work, any reason not to?
wowace already does a good bit of file hosting so that wouldnt change, right?