At the moment, I'm just keeping my options open and putzing around a lot, I'm also considering checking out older games that have a lot of expansion packs now (such as Anarchy Online) and perhaps games I played in beta (Neocron). I've also applied for the betas of a number of games recently, including AutoAssault and RF-Online, so I might get into them. I'm putzing around with current games too such as City of Villains, so ... I'll see what I decide on.
I think the most important aspects for me though is that A) it has to be fun to explore and B) it has to be devoid of totalitarian devs. City of Heroes/Villains is promising in that it's a load of fun to play and it has fantastic devs but there's not much to explore there, per se. Perhaps when I get to higher levels, I'm not sure yet. I'll have to see. For now though, the jury's still out and I haven't decided what my next major MMO-stop off will be.
---Edit---
Though I admit, I am salivating over Phantasy Star Universe.
Cast (androids, yay androids, yay wren!!), Numans and even ... an unannounced beast-race? With Sega's graphics pretty-making abilities? Oh yes, I am eager to see this game.
Personally I don't want to see another game offer a script environment like WoW's unless they do better than a half-assed effort at maintaining it. I'd hate to deal with yet another team who implements incomplete solutions that get "fixed" by other incomplete solutions next patch and each fix breaks several addons. If a game company actually wants to think about design, then I'd love to see a scripting environment that blows away WoW's.
Some games I'm watching and waiting for (no particular order):
I also tried an incredibly stupid game that's completely free. Its ridiculousness kept me playing for about two hours straight. It's boring but there's some sort of perverse enjoyment in it, though this actually dies quickly. Actually I might try it out some more if not for the horrible movement. You have to use the keyboard and mouse, the keyboard to move and the mouse to change the camera, because the camera stays fixed. It doesn't follow your movement.
I agree with you on that count, Instant. I might just be old fashioned (or opposedly, I might just be a youthful advocate of history and tolerance) but I miss things being Gentlemanly and sporting. The primary problem I have with Warcraft's PvP is that there's no sportsmanship and it's a festering breeding-grounds of hatred and anger. I have nothing against PvP when it's handled well. Hell, I play a mean game of Counterstrike and UT. Very few MMOs when they include PvP though have handled it well. Guild Wars was one of them, they turned it into a sport, like football. People could even watch and cheer for their favourite teams. This took away from the violence because it wasn't really so much people fighting each other, it really was all in good fun.
There'd also be the occasional cheer when the literate amongst them stood up against the shorthand speech. I remember heartily cheering at a mutter of; "Pf. Roffle ma waffle."
City of Heroes had a great PvP system too, the Arena was bloody fantastic. They had to go and add PvP zones though and even the developers have admitted that those are now areas that're absolutely full of griefers. They did point out two things though, that people don't have to go to those zones (it's a choice and it is only two zones) and that they're doing what they can to remedy the situation.
I think the only good PvP is arena regulated PvP because it is the sport of kings. No, I'm not against PvP (shock!), I just think it should be handled fairly and after a game, people should show what good sportsmen they are with offerings of; "Good game!" and "Hey, you guys did great out there!". You see that kind of thing when observing a battle in Guild Wars.
The enemy of PvP will always be the griefer. The bane of the griefer will always be regulated, fair PvP.
That's why I personally agree with you on PvP being a joke in Warcraft, Instant. There's no fairness, no sportsmanship, no friendly banter, no offerings of good games, no compliments, no displays of great teamwork, no even-handed understanding of justice, no honour ... it's just Griefer-Land. Population: Us.
Well, what I meant was that in CareCraft you have two sides who are supposedly at war, yet you see very often the sides ignoring each other.
You can not wage war on their cities, you can not burn down their cities, you get DKs if you kill enemy npcs.
It is level based, so it requires you to be within a certain 'range' to have any effect at all, as opposed to a skill based system, (E.g. Ultima Online and to a certain degree Asherons Call).
You have gankers that can continue unhindered because death has no meaning and most people dont bother helping unless they have a guaranteed victory.
Bring Back Atlantic 1997 Ultima Online style PVP :-)
I dont care if I die and my gear is looted, as long as I can do the same to my enemies. =)
[And a bag full of enemy skulls that I can deliver to my Racial Leader / Warchief for a reward would'nt hurt either]
... After DKs and HKs and BGs, World PVP Disappeared from the PVP server. Luckily you can still get very cool PVP games on RPPVP servers [Raids, Forming up on opposing sides and then charging, etc..]
Oh whell.... At least Darkfall will come out some time in 200X.
Which do absolutely nothing at all, so you still have people killing NPCs. In fact, I saw a Horde person wipe out the Elven town near the Den the other day. I was quite pissed about it, so I gave him an earful about honour and courage. I also pointed out that should he do it again, he'll get the same lecture again and the last thing you want to be is lectured by Rowne. Only the mighty ignore function can save you from that.
Yes, I do actively defend the other faction from my own when I see Horde people commiting war-attrocities.
You have gankers that can continue unhindered because death has no meaning and most people dont bother helping unless they have a guaranteed victory.
The problem isn't that death has no meaning, the problem is that dishonourable actions have no meaning. At least that's what I think. My opinion on the matter should be that if anyone group attacks another player or attacks another player three levels below them (note, attacks a player, not is attacked by) then they should be awarded a DK. I also believe that DKs should actually do something, what they should do I think is force the guards of their own faction to attack them on sight as if they had some kind of "bounty" on their head as a war-criminal. Gods, I would love to see that.
The only way they'd be able to get rid of that is by doing community service quests which result in no exp but lessen their DK ratings, these quests would be ludicrously difficult, of course. They also wouldn't be able to get their armour repaired or buy new supplies until the guards were no longer pissed at them.
I think a lot of the misunderstanding about the state of the War in Warcraft is that it isn't a war, per se, it's a civil war. In fact, everything evidenced about the type of war and the reactions of the people within the game (the NPCs andsoforth) seem to give major nods towards this. Knowing a bit about civil wars, I think that the DK system would be justified because in a civil war, you don't go permitting acts of dishonour. You win via just being better at what you do, not through cheating and acts of gross dishonour, as those are considered war crimes.
... you can not burn down their cities ...
I reckon this should be possible too but I reckon that it should brand the person as a major war criminal, it should send bounty hunter NPCs out after them. That'd be so damned funny. Some stupid bastard tries to burn down the Crossroads and then he has a large group of 62 elites tracking him down (not to mention other players) to claim the bounty on his head. Would you feel so bad about someone burning down part of the Crossroads if you could kill him (with the help of level 62 elites) and claim 10 or more gold (depending on the crime) from it? I think not.
---
Finishing up, I think this is where you and I differ, Instant. You're an anarchist, I'm more of a civil anarchist. I believe in being able to do anything but I don't believe in being able to do anything without ramifications. Cause and effect seem to be a primary rule of the Universe. Try to raze a city and you're going to get a bunch of bounty hunters on your side and your own people are going to consider you dishonourable. There should be Worlds where anything goes but the state of the War for that should be total War, not Civil War.
I agree with you then insofar as that these things should be doable but everything should come at a heavy price. If a person is a criminal, they should be branded as a criminal. In any real World, I think, you wouldn't be able to charge around razing cities, killing people and stealing things without having yourself declared as a wanted man or woman. In any real World, I'd think that actions such as that might even have towns or nations declaring a state of war against you based on how grotesque the actions in question are. That's how any real World would do things, providing the World isn't existing in a state of lawless anarchy, which Warcraft is not.
Freedom but freedom at the cost of responsibility.
I like the pvp system in wich you play PvE in your own faction's land, and play PvP behind the borders of the entrance to the Wildernis. In the Wildernis there are towers and keeps. If you manage to kill all of the guards of a tower before respawn, the tower is now of your faction's side, with guards that protect it. Keeps have a lord. kill the lord (very elite NPC with guards around him) and the your guild's banner will decorate its towers.
Such a world offers good things to both parties (PvE, PvP). It's also nice to include a system like relics. If you can capture one and bring it to your faction's shrine, the whole faction (ALL players) will gain a bonus in combat. But the relics can be stolen too.
fantastic! :P
(Some players will know what game i'm talking about ;);))
Well, hoofing's (wall-walking's) dead and as far as I can tell, the explorers will die with it, enjoy your game of PvP and 400-man, 38-hour raid dungeons (eventually) everyone ... because that's all it'll be soon. Bitter? A bit, yeah. Anyway, I just wanted to make it official by noting that I no longer have Warcraft installed and it's not that I won't code for it anymore, I managed to code even after I cancelled my account the last time and I stuck with this blasted game (for the community and my friends, rather than myself) longer than I really should have. Despite how much I enjoy Lua and making things for Ace though, I just can't do it anymore, otherwise I'll watch them just kill the game even more, piece by piece by piece. That'll only make me miserable and to be honest, I have better things to do.
There are other games I'm fully moving onto and I'm just going to consider Warcraft a bad memory. None of my AddOns will see any update from this point and where they're not joint productions, you can consider them public domain. If anyone needs any proof of this, they can view this post and email me at my usual address to check. But just to stress, this isn't like last time where I hung about anyway out of obligation to friends and community, this time I'm really gone.
Seriously though, it has been fun with you guys. It's been a blast.
I'm sorry to go, really. It's just that I have my own particular rules of morality and dignity and I can't conscientiously play a game run by callous bastards whose sole purpose seems to be to both A) make it less fun and B) twist it into a dark shadow of its once, former glory. The trees have been screwed over, the classes have been fucked up, this latest patch does horribly wrong things to Paladins, all in the name of PvP. Warriors were broken recently so they went from being team players and defense shields to Rogue better-thans. Everything that was balanced is now unbalanced, everything that was good is now fucked. Everything that's fun is now being sapped away.
I dunno, it seems like the Blizzard motto recently is; "If we haven't fucked it up yet, don't worry guys, we'll get to it! *Thumbs up.*" Hell, even my Guild, who were ardent Warcrafters, are agreeing with me that this just seems to be a constantly downhill slide for Blizzard, much like it was with Ultima Online, Everquest and so on. More's the pity because once up on a time, World of Warcraft was a really fun game. I can't play it anymore and just pretend that it isn't going down the crapper.
As for my City of Villains server, I'm currently playing a mix of Union/Defiant on the Eu system. I'm having a blast with that, I even recently created a character purely for WTF value alone. I have a zombie Pirate named Chuck who has an army of Ninjas. horrible? Yes, very. Yet in a very, very strangely amusing way. Of course, my mains are still my corrupted medical bot ("Paradigm shift in effect. A -- ... -- little salt in the wound? *chrrrkt*") and my token furry hunter/stalker. I've even wrapped a story around all my characters about them being Captains in the army of an overlord who was recently brought down and stuff, I've put much effort into them.
And it's a blast role-playing with them.
I'm keeping my options open largely at the moment though, as to what I'm playing, I'm actually putzing around with a lot of things. Though if anyone wants me to hop on over to the US servers, I'd certainly consider that. It's just that I wouldn't want to convert to US and have no one to game with there because I don't really 'click' with US people like I do with Eu folks. That said, I'd definitely consider shifting my account if there was interest in that.
Hm, not sure what else to say ... so I think I'll leave it at that.
I already have a Guild in Warcraft, they're all moving to another game too, details not yet disclosable as we haven't really finaliized things.
I've never been short of people to game with in 'craft, I mean ... hell, my pack's there. They're the reason I endured that tripe for so long. Probably would've stayed off after patch 1.5 and refused all offers to come back had it not been for them. Since they were there however, so was I. And because they were there, for a time, even Warcraft was fun.
Though given the multitude of genuinely superiour games out there at the moment, I don't see a need to continue playing Warcraft so ... we're all moving. Thus, the last lingering strands of my sanity are saved.
Thus, the last lingering strands of my sanity are saved.
Yay sanity!
Um..... are you quite sure about that Rowne? :) Have you re-read some of your Visor documentation recently? (I think it may be the tips and tricks guide that you wrote - along with a few other of your personalities :lol: )
... due to the nature of that guide being a Wiki, numerous people contributed to it. In fact, I probably did the least work. I added a few of my own tips and cleaned up some grammatical errors, largely. That's when I was upholding my custodial status over it.
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I think the most important aspects for me though is that A) it has to be fun to explore and B) it has to be devoid of totalitarian devs. City of Heroes/Villains is promising in that it's a load of fun to play and it has fantastic devs but there's not much to explore there, per se. Perhaps when I get to higher levels, I'm not sure yet. I'll have to see. For now though, the jury's still out and I haven't decided what my next major MMO-stop off will be.
---Edit---
Though I admit, I am salivating over Phantasy Star Universe.
Cast (androids, yay androids, yay wren!!), Numans and even ... an unannounced beast-race? With Sega's graphics pretty-making abilities? Oh yes, I am eager to see this game.
What if the scripting isn't as great as it is in WoW? :P
Seriously, it makes up for some huge flaws for me. If I'm bored with the content I'll just code some stuff instead. :P
Some games I'm watching and waiting for (no particular order):
The Chronicle
Dungeons and Dragons Online
Pirates of the Burning Sea
Dark and Light
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Mourning
Darkfall
I also tried an incredibly stupid game that's completely free. Its ridiculousness kept me playing for about two hours straight. It's boring but there's some sort of perverse enjoyment in it, though this actually dies quickly. Actually I might try it out some more if not for the horrible movement. You have to use the keyboard and mouse, the keyboard to move and the mouse to change the camera, because the camera stays fixed. It doesn't follow your movement.
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Curse PremiumThere'd also be the occasional cheer when the literate amongst them stood up against the shorthand speech. I remember heartily cheering at a mutter of; "Pf. Roffle ma waffle."
City of Heroes had a great PvP system too, the Arena was bloody fantastic. They had to go and add PvP zones though and even the developers have admitted that those are now areas that're absolutely full of griefers. They did point out two things though, that people don't have to go to those zones (it's a choice and it is only two zones) and that they're doing what they can to remedy the situation.
I think the only good PvP is arena regulated PvP because it is the sport of kings. No, I'm not against PvP (shock!), I just think it should be handled fairly and after a game, people should show what good sportsmen they are with offerings of; "Good game!" and "Hey, you guys did great out there!". You see that kind of thing when observing a battle in Guild Wars.
The enemy of PvP will always be the griefer. The bane of the griefer will always be regulated, fair PvP.
That's why I personally agree with you on PvP being a joke in Warcraft, Instant. There's no fairness, no sportsmanship, no friendly banter, no offerings of good games, no compliments, no displays of great teamwork, no even-handed understanding of justice, no honour ... it's just Griefer-Land. Population: Us.
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Curse PremiumYou can not wage war on their cities, you can not burn down their cities, you get DKs if you kill enemy npcs.
It is level based, so it requires you to be within a certain 'range' to have any effect at all, as opposed to a skill based system, (E.g. Ultima Online and to a certain degree Asherons Call).
You have gankers that can continue unhindered because death has no meaning and most people dont bother helping unless they have a guaranteed victory.
Bring Back Atlantic 1997 Ultima Online style PVP :-)
I dont care if I die and my gear is looted, as long as I can do the same to my enemies. =)
[And a bag full of enemy skulls that I can deliver to my Racial Leader / Warchief for a reward would'nt hurt either]
... After DKs and HKs and BGs, World PVP Disappeared from the PVP server. Luckily you can still get very cool PVP games on RPPVP servers [Raids, Forming up on opposing sides and then charging, etc..]
Oh whell.... At least Darkfall will come out some time in 200X.
(TES4 next year! YAY!)
Yeah, this point was brought up by tekkub.
... you get DKs if you kill enemy npcs.
Which do absolutely nothing at all, so you still have people killing NPCs. In fact, I saw a Horde person wipe out the Elven town near the Den the other day. I was quite pissed about it, so I gave him an earful about honour and courage. I also pointed out that should he do it again, he'll get the same lecture again and the last thing you want to be is lectured by Rowne. Only the mighty ignore function can save you from that.
Yes, I do actively defend the other faction from my own when I see Horde people commiting war-attrocities.
You have gankers that can continue unhindered because death has no meaning and most people dont bother helping unless they have a guaranteed victory.
The problem isn't that death has no meaning, the problem is that dishonourable actions have no meaning. At least that's what I think. My opinion on the matter should be that if anyone group attacks another player or attacks another player three levels below them (note, attacks a player, not is attacked by) then they should be awarded a DK. I also believe that DKs should actually do something, what they should do I think is force the guards of their own faction to attack them on sight as if they had some kind of "bounty" on their head as a war-criminal. Gods, I would love to see that.
The only way they'd be able to get rid of that is by doing community service quests which result in no exp but lessen their DK ratings, these quests would be ludicrously difficult, of course. They also wouldn't be able to get their armour repaired or buy new supplies until the guards were no longer pissed at them.
I think a lot of the misunderstanding about the state of the War in Warcraft is that it isn't a war, per se, it's a civil war. In fact, everything evidenced about the type of war and the reactions of the people within the game (the NPCs andsoforth) seem to give major nods towards this. Knowing a bit about civil wars, I think that the DK system would be justified because in a civil war, you don't go permitting acts of dishonour. You win via just being better at what you do, not through cheating and acts of gross dishonour, as those are considered war crimes.
... you can not burn down their cities ...
I reckon this should be possible too but I reckon that it should brand the person as a major war criminal, it should send bounty hunter NPCs out after them. That'd be so damned funny. Some stupid bastard tries to burn down the Crossroads and then he has a large group of 62 elites tracking him down (not to mention other players) to claim the bounty on his head. Would you feel so bad about someone burning down part of the Crossroads if you could kill him (with the help of level 62 elites) and claim 10 or more gold (depending on the crime) from it? I think not.
---
Finishing up, I think this is where you and I differ, Instant. You're an anarchist, I'm more of a civil anarchist. I believe in being able to do anything but I don't believe in being able to do anything without ramifications. Cause and effect seem to be a primary rule of the Universe. Try to raze a city and you're going to get a bunch of bounty hunters on your side and your own people are going to consider you dishonourable. There should be Worlds where anything goes but the state of the War for that should be total War, not Civil War.
I agree with you then insofar as that these things should be doable but everything should come at a heavy price. If a person is a criminal, they should be branded as a criminal. In any real World, I think, you wouldn't be able to charge around razing cities, killing people and stealing things without having yourself declared as a wanted man or woman. In any real World, I'd think that actions such as that might even have towns or nations declaring a state of war against you based on how grotesque the actions in question are. That's how any real World would do things, providing the World isn't existing in a state of lawless anarchy, which Warcraft is not.
Freedom but freedom at the cost of responsibility.
Such a world offers good things to both parties (PvE, PvP). It's also nice to include a system like relics. If you can capture one and bring it to your faction's shrine, the whole faction (ALL players) will gain a bonus in combat. But the relics can be stolen too.
fantastic! :P
(Some players will know what game i'm talking about ;);))
I've heard good things about EVE Online if you wanted another one. I haven't played yet, but tempted soon!
There are other games I'm fully moving onto and I'm just going to consider Warcraft a bad memory. None of my AddOns will see any update from this point and where they're not joint productions, you can consider them public domain. If anyone needs any proof of this, they can view this post and email me at my usual address to check. But just to stress, this isn't like last time where I hung about anyway out of obligation to friends and community, this time I'm really gone.
Seriously though, it has been fun with you guys. It's been a blast.
Have fun with whatever you replace WoW with.
Steve
Please give us an update on what you're playing. What CoV server do you play on?
I dunno, it seems like the Blizzard motto recently is; "If we haven't fucked it up yet, don't worry guys, we'll get to it! *Thumbs up.*" Hell, even my Guild, who were ardent Warcrafters, are agreeing with me that this just seems to be a constantly downhill slide for Blizzard, much like it was with Ultima Online, Everquest and so on. More's the pity because once up on a time, World of Warcraft was a really fun game. I can't play it anymore and just pretend that it isn't going down the crapper.
As for my City of Villains server, I'm currently playing a mix of Union/Defiant on the Eu system. I'm having a blast with that, I even recently created a character purely for WTF value alone. I have a zombie Pirate named Chuck who has an army of Ninjas. horrible? Yes, very. Yet in a very, very strangely amusing way. Of course, my mains are still my corrupted medical bot ("Paradigm shift in effect. A -- ... -- little salt in the wound? *chrrrkt*") and my token furry hunter/stalker. I've even wrapped a story around all my characters about them being Captains in the army of an overlord who was recently brought down and stuff, I've put much effort into them.
And it's a blast role-playing with them.
I'm keeping my options open largely at the moment though, as to what I'm playing, I'm actually putzing around with a lot of things. Though if anyone wants me to hop on over to the US servers, I'd certainly consider that. It's just that I wouldn't want to convert to US and have no one to game with there because I don't really 'click' with US people like I do with Eu folks. That said, I'd definitely consider shifting my account if there was interest in that.
Hm, not sure what else to say ... so I think I'll leave it at that.
Oh wait you're talking in CoV
I already have a Guild in Warcraft, they're all moving to another game too, details not yet disclosable as we haven't really finaliized things.
I've never been short of people to game with in 'craft, I mean ... hell, my pack's there. They're the reason I endured that tripe for so long. Probably would've stayed off after patch 1.5 and refused all offers to come back had it not been for them. Since they were there however, so was I. And because they were there, for a time, even Warcraft was fun.
Though given the multitude of genuinely superiour games out there at the moment, I don't see a need to continue playing Warcraft so ... we're all moving. Thus, the last lingering strands of my sanity are saved.
Yay sanity!
I haven't really seriously played WoW in months. It's the coding I enjoy.
Um..... are you quite sure about that Rowne? :) Have you re-read some of your Visor documentation recently? (I think it may be the tips and tricks guide that you wrote - along with a few other of your personalities :lol: )
Steve