So... what's the point of a virtual competition between frameworks if an author still sucks at coding?
Well, hopefully the sucky ones are the exceptions and not needed for evaluation because, well, no matter what they suck. As was the case in Ace1 and Ace2, we'll still have to fight hard to make people realize it's not the library that makes code good, it's the programmer.
I've seen some nasty shit happen in Ace2 addons.
Quote from Bam »
Apart from that I believe I both have made constructive comments and I plan to do so in the future. Yes, I've used some harsh language at times - often when discussing with you, Tekkub. You aren't entirely innocent of that either. And it would be better if none of us did that.
Yes, I agree. But in my defense, I've been venting a bit over the crap that happened that lead to my... hiatus. I'm mostly over that now. And I don't think any of my meanness was directed at anyone specific, but a couple of your comments sure as hell were :P
Quote from Bam »
Why it matters how many addons and libraries I have contributed, I don't know. I sure hope you will listen to anybody who has something to say - even if they have released zero addons or libraries using any framework.
It doesn't really. Quantity certainly does not buy you "priority" or the like when it comes to helping out with the project. The point I was trying to make was that it's hard to accept negative criticism of what the framework does when, as far as I can tell, you don't have very much experience working with the framework. I wasn't trying to downplay your contributions at all, just your bitching :)
Either way... time to call a truce. Please, by all means hit jira up, add your comments to the issues, open new ones as you see fit. And rip the code to shreds looking for crap that we do badly... I certainly hope you don't find anything.
You guys were serious about banning him for his posts? That is the most obnoxious thing I have ever heard.
Many of the opinions and statments he made reflect those of people who may not want to post and endure the wall of text dressing down from each and every member of the Ace3 team - who needs that? I had the same thing happen to me in another thread, hence I dont bother to voice my opinions.
Don't forget that life did go on while you guys were away in protest. There is a community here which you have not been part of. Some of those people may not like things you are doing. They have every right to feel that way.
You guys were serious about banning him for his posts? That is the most obnoxious thing I have ever heard.
Many of the opinions and statments he made reflect those of people who may not want to post and endure the wall of text dressing down from each and every member of the Ace3 team - who needs that? I had the same thing happen to me in another thread, hence I dont bother to voice my opinions.
Don't forget that life did go on while you guys were away in protest. There is a community here which you have not been part of. Some of those people may not like things you are doing. They have every right to feel that way.
Tekkub (Posting after the thread lock)
Quote from Tekkub »
Quote from Kaelten »
Just please keep things civil!
Whateva! I do what I want.
I believe the warning were due to personal attacks and insults rather than childish behavior.
You guys were serious about banning him for his posts? That is the most obnoxious thing I have ever heard.
Many of the opinions and statments he made reflect those of people who may not want to post and endure the wall of text dressing down from each and every member of the Ace3 team - who needs that? I had the same thing happen to me in another thread, hence I dont bother to voice my opinions.
Don't forget that life did go on while you guys were away in protest. There is a community here which you have not been part of. Some of those people may not like things you are doing. They have every right to feel that way.
We have a discussion about making personal accusations, and you continue to throw them around. Look at my posting history. When I catch wind of a thread turning personal in the middle of heated discussion, I issue warnings and let the individual know that the behavior is not appropriate or not. Whether you like it or not, we have a responsibility to be civil to each other. I spoke directly with Bam, and he apologize regarding his personal accusations and attacks against me in a thread I've barely participated in.
The discussion was fine.. personal insults are never okay. I helped build this community, and I've been responsible (EVEN IN MY ABSENCE) of maintaining the same levels of moderation that I did when I was extremely active in the community. You know who banned or edited all of those posts that YOU yourself reported Sylv? Me. Who spent sixty hours during a full work week setting up the new Ace server because no one could be arsed to help? Me. Don't talk to me about community, because I fully understand what we're here for, and the position of everyone involved. My words and posts, you will find, support my consistent position.
Many people in the "community" know you only as an anti-ace2, well "troll" for lack of a better word. The same can be said for Clad, sorry - no offense. Its been a long time since you guys "left" in terms of being developers on the project (8-9 months?). Have you guys considered this?
And not for a second did I forsake my duties as a forum moderator. Thats what we're discussing isn't it? The fact that I warned someone for taking a thread to a personal place without cause or reason.
Many people in the "community" know you only as an anti-ace2, well "troll" for lack of a better word. The same can be said for Clad, sorry - no offense. Its been a long time since you guys "left" in terms of being developers on the project (8-9 months?). Have you guys considered this?
Does it matter? Why bring this up, when everyone is trying to be constructive and make Ace3/Rock? Just take it as stated, that some of the developers from Ace1 and 2 are working on Ace3. Their 'behaviour' in the last few months may not be sterling, but that could be said of just about everyone involved in the debacle. No-one is a pure as the driven snow innocent, so lets all just leave it alone and move forward.
There's been a heap of immaturity on both sides of everything recently, can we all just grow up? Lets stop trying to stab "the other framework" in the wheels and just get doing what we need to do and get them done.
Many people in the "community" know you only as an anti-ace2, well "troll" for lack of a better word. The same can be said for Clad, sorry - no offense. Its been a long time since you guys "left" in terms of being developers on the project (8-9 months?). Have you guys considered this?
I am aware that post was removed, but I will still defend myself.
I left Ace on June 25th. I returned, what a week ago? That's a 2.5mo hiatus. Yes, I am pro-Dongle and anti-Ace2 nowadays, but I hardly think "troll" is the right word. I've always been pro-good-coding, as anyone who's been in the community since when Ace2 started or before can tell you... and I don't think Ace2 is good code anymore. That doesn't mean I'm against the community, I mean hell I got with clad to provide a solution to what I thought was bad code. I created libs before Ace2 was written... some of AceLibrary is based on my code... timed events in AceEvent are from my library... A lot of my work is in Ace2, and Clad's, and many other people's. I think we're allowed to be unhappy with what it has become. And I think the fact that we want Ace3 to be the best it can be shows that we support the "community", even if it includes people that openly hate us.
Quote from Seerah »
Diversionary Tactic!!!
I hope that kitten fucks that dog up, he's asking for it.
There's been a heap of immaturity on both sides of everything recently, can we all just grow up? Lets stop trying to stab "the other framework" in the wheels and just get doing what we need to do and get them done.
QFT
For whoever is asking:
Bongos, Bagnon, and Sage will go Dongle -> Ace3 if Ace3 is as light as Dongle, or offers anything I find attractive. Ludwig and SellFish will continue to use nothing, because there is no reason to use a framework for those addons.
OmniCC will most likely stay framework independent, though I like the idea of being able to use just the slash handler and timer stuff in Ace3.
Why not Rock? Dongle already offers me what I want, in a smaller package. I'm sure it will be a good candidate to move to from Ace2, but I'm no expert on Ace2.
I removed my earlier post since it wasnt worded well enough to convey my meaning. Esp towards Clad.
Just realize that some people still like Ace2, and have devoted sizable amounts of their time as well to supporting it and addons which use it. If that doesn't include you then you need to be able to coexist with those people somehow.
Just realize that some people still like Ace2, and have devoted sizable amounts of their time as well to supporting it and addons which use it. If that doesn't include you then you need to be able to coexist with those people somehow.
Just realize that some people were the entire reason Ace2 became an idea and existed, and supported and wrote lots of code to get you the libraries that exist today. If that doesn't include you then you need to be able to coexist with these people somehow.
The sword has two edges, and all I ask is that we keep threads constructive, on-topic, and don't resort to personal insults and accusations. They have no place on this forum, in a constructive conversation.
EDIT: In restrospect I would word my post:
"Just realize that some people were instrumental in the creation of the Ace2 framework including scoping, design, and writing code for the actual libraries along with addons to use the framework. If that doesn't include you then you need to be able to coexist with these people somehow."
My original wording overstates what I was trying to say.
Well, hopefully the sucky ones are the exceptions and not needed for evaluation because, well, no matter what they suck. As was the case in Ace1 and Ace2, we'll still have to fight hard to make people realize it's not the library that makes code good, it's the programmer.
I've seen some nasty shit happen in Ace2 addons.
Yes, I agree. But in my defense, I've been venting a bit over the crap that happened that lead to my... hiatus. I'm mostly over that now. And I don't think any of my meanness was directed at anyone specific, but a couple of your comments sure as hell were :P
It doesn't really. Quantity certainly does not buy you "priority" or the like when it comes to helping out with the project. The point I was trying to make was that it's hard to accept negative criticism of what the framework does when, as far as I can tell, you don't have very much experience working with the framework. I wasn't trying to downplay your contributions at all, just your bitching :)
Either way... time to call a truce. Please, by all means hit jira up, add your comments to the issues, open new ones as you see fit. And rip the code to shreds looking for crap that we do badly... I certainly hope you don't find anything.
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Curse PremiumMany of the opinions and statments he made reflect those of people who may not want to post and endure the wall of text dressing down from each and every member of the Ace3 team - who needs that? I had the same thing happen to me in another thread, hence I dont bother to voice my opinions.
Don't forget that life did go on while you guys were away in protest. There is a community here which you have not been part of. Some of those people may not like things you are doing. They have every right to feel that way.
Tekkub (Posting after the thread lock)
I believe the warning were due to personal attacks and insults rather than childish behavior.
Longstanding joke in the "community", what was here before my "protest", which I was a part of.
Your jokes are not funny.
We have a discussion about making personal accusations, and you continue to throw them around. Look at my posting history. When I catch wind of a thread turning personal in the middle of heated discussion, I issue warnings and let the individual know that the behavior is not appropriate or not. Whether you like it or not, we have a responsibility to be civil to each other. I spoke directly with Bam, and he apologize regarding his personal accusations and attacks against me in a thread I've barely participated in.
The discussion was fine.. personal insults are never okay. I helped build this community, and I've been responsible (EVEN IN MY ABSENCE) of maintaining the same levels of moderation that I did when I was extremely active in the community. You know who banned or edited all of those posts that YOU yourself reported Sylv? Me. Who spent sixty hours during a full work week setting up the new Ace server because no one could be arsed to help? Me. Don't talk to me about community, because I fully understand what we're here for, and the position of everyone involved. My words and posts, you will find, support my consistent position.
And not for a second did I forsake my duties as a forum moderator. Thats what we're discussing isn't it? The fact that I warned someone for taking a thread to a personal place without cause or reason.
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Curse PremiumDoes it matter? Why bring this up, when everyone is trying to be constructive and make Ace3/Rock? Just take it as stated, that some of the developers from Ace1 and 2 are working on Ace3. Their 'behaviour' in the last few months may not be sterling, but that could be said of just about everyone involved in the debacle. No-one is a pure as the driven snow innocent, so lets all just leave it alone and move forward.
There's been a heap of immaturity on both sides of everything recently, can we all just grow up? Lets stop trying to stab "the other framework" in the wheels and just get doing what we need to do and get them done.
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Curse PremiumI am aware that post was removed, but I will still defend myself.
I left Ace on June 25th. I returned, what a week ago? That's a 2.5mo hiatus. Yes, I am pro-Dongle and anti-Ace2 nowadays, but I hardly think "troll" is the right word. I've always been pro-good-coding, as anyone who's been in the community since when Ace2 started or before can tell you... and I don't think Ace2 is good code anymore. That doesn't mean I'm against the community, I mean hell I got with clad to provide a solution to what I thought was bad code. I created libs before Ace2 was written... some of AceLibrary is based on my code... timed events in AceEvent are from my library... A lot of my work is in Ace2, and Clad's, and many other people's. I think we're allowed to be unhappy with what it has become. And I think the fact that we want Ace3 to be the best it can be shows that we support the "community", even if it includes people that openly hate us.
I hope that kitten fucks that dog up, he's asking for it.
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Curse PremiumQFT
For whoever is asking:
Bongos, Bagnon, and Sage will go Dongle -> Ace3 if Ace3 is as light as Dongle, or offers anything I find attractive. Ludwig and SellFish will continue to use nothing, because there is no reason to use a framework for those addons.
OmniCC will most likely stay framework independent, though I like the idea of being able to use just the slash handler and timer stuff in Ace3.
Why not Rock? Dongle already offers me what I want, in a smaller package. I'm sure it will be a good candidate to move to from Ace2, but I'm no expert on Ace2.
/bow
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Curse PremiumJust realize that some people still like Ace2, and have devoted sizable amounts of their time as well to supporting it and addons which use it. If that doesn't include you then you need to be able to coexist with those people somehow.
Just realize that some people were the entire reason Ace2 became an idea and existed, and supported and wrote lots of code to get you the libraries that exist today. If that doesn't include you then you need to be able to coexist with these people somehow.
The sword has two edges, and all I ask is that we keep threads constructive, on-topic, and don't resort to personal insults and accusations. They have no place on this forum, in a constructive conversation.
EDIT: In restrospect I would word my post:
"Just realize that some people were instrumental in the creation of the Ace2 framework including scoping, design, and writing code for the actual libraries along with addons to use the framework. If that doesn't include you then you need to be able to coexist with these people somehow."
My original wording overstates what I was trying to say.
Banned.
Next!
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Curse PremiumWhat flavour?
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Curse PremiumThat's when you left Ace2 imho. Not the forums.