First an addon like Pawn would need to be made "complete" so that you can generate a useability rating for every class and spec for every item. Pawn is an addon that gives a rating for every item in the game based on the items stats. You decide how to weight the items stats. It's a generic version of TankPoints, Shadowpanther's AEP for rogues, etc. There aren't stat weights figured out for every class and spec yet. That's the hard part. Once all the weight sets are done, given a class, spec and item you have a useability rating for that combination. That useability rating would be your input to determine if someone is a ninja. Lots of work to do there as Pawn is pretty much a framework at this point.
But, lets assume that you get that done.
There is still lots of grey area.
Can a char actually use the dropped item? Classes have to train for some weapon types and they may or may not be able to actually use an item even though their class can possibly train to use that item. F.e., not all rogues can use Fist Weapons and depending on the number of other weapons types they have trained, they may not even be able to learn to use Fist Weapons (I'm one of those rogues). A Fist Weapon that's perfect for rogues drops. It's an upgrade for said rogue. That rogue, who doesn't know how to use Fist Weapons and can't learn how to use Fist Weapons, needs it. That's a Ninja roll that no addon will ever be able to detect.
You've also got the hybrid classes and off spec sets. A Ret Pally rolling on +healing gear is going to be hard for an addon to deal with. The item will probably get a bad rating based on their class/spec/equipped item rating, but if their goal is building the off spec set then it's not really a ninja roll. Especially if they've told the group in advance about their desire to get said off spec set.
But, getting back to this addon:
At every roll window:
For each char in group:
Get class
Get spec
Get inventory of slot of item that dropped
Compute rating of item in char's slot
Compute rating of dropped item for this char
Compare ratings
Display difference in ratings
Display roll
That's a lot of work and still leaves a lot of ambiguity.
That also hasn't touched on the storing and broadcasting of the Ninjas that this addon has detected.
Nor has it touched on how this database of Ninja's could be totally bogus and you're giving someone a bad name who doesn't deserve it.
Finally, this is all "after the fact" and "too late to do anything about it" information. I.e., once an item has been ninja'd you can't get it back. BOP is BOP, no way to undo it.
Turning on Master Looter for any instance run with more than 5 people solves the problem. The only way someone can ninja with master looter turned on is if the master looter isn't trustworthy. In that very rare case, kicking the master looter and the ninja (assuming they are different people) and/or leaving the group/guild is the answer.
@Samala: there are limits to how many weapon skills you can learn? I haven't run into that - I was always able to train what was available. When was it added?
@Samala: there are limits to how many weapon skills you can learn? I haven't run into that - I was always able to train what was available. When was it added?
/offtopic
There's restrictions on what weapon types each class can equip and use.
It's a long-time "feature" of the game.
I probably misunderstood the question but I mean what's noted in "Available Weapons" for each class. http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/classes/index.html
Each class has some restrictions on what they can equip.
not all rogues can use Fist Weapons and depending on the number of other weapons types they have trained, they may not even be able to learn to use Fist Weapons (I'm one of those rogues).
I think Seerah was asking about this part directly. Samala is saying that while rogues can learn fists, if they've learned other stuff, they cannot learn fists because the available "extra skills" slots are full. Or something like that.
Although I've never had this problem. My rogue knows fists, daggers, swords, maces, bows, guns and throwing. I never had an issue learning them all.
That's exactly why i wonderd if there was such addon, that could detect each raid/party members spec/gear and evaluate them using the DKP system or something similar.
At least a easy way to see what everyone rolled on on what item, since going through 20 pages or something just to check everyone's roll is a hardass way, witch im sick of doing, specially when you dont have much time to play...
But it seems there isnt such "advanced" addon out, so i guess this concludes the question at al, i guess.
But anyhow, if you DO code/find a similar addon like i was looking for, then gimme a msg, ok? ;)
I think Seerah was asking about this part directly. Samala is saying that while rogues can learn fists, if they've learned other stuff, they cannot learn fists because the available "extra skills" slots are full. Or something like that.
Although I've never had this problem. My rogue knows fists, daggers, swords, maces, bows, guns and throwing. I never had an issue learning them all.
Bingo.
Starinnia, try to go learn crossbows -- I've got crossbows where you've got fists. I get an error on my rogue whenever I try to learn Fists. Maybe I've got an addon interfering. Next time I'm in <whereever you train Fists -- Ironforge?> I'll have to try to disable all addons and try to train it.
That's exactly why i wonderd if there was such addon, that could detect each raid/party members spec/gear and evaluate them using the DKP system or something similar.
At least a easy way to see what everyone rolled on on what item, since going through 20 pages or something just to check everyone's roll is a hardass way, witch im sick of doing, specially when you dont have much time to play...
But it seems there isnt such "advanced" addon out, so i guess this concludes the question at al, i guess.
But anyhow, if you DO code/find a similar addon like i was looking for, then gimme a msg, ok? ;)
Sure.
But I still think you are missing the point.
You can spend hundreds of hours developing an addon that figures out who the ninjas are. All the while you and your friends are having items stolen from you. Even after the addon is finished, you keep getting ninja'd and adding more names to your lists. Here a Ninja. There a Ninja. Everywhere a Ninja. Equipment lost forever.
*OR*
You can turn on Master Looter and never be ninja'd from again.
You can turn on Master Looter and never be ninja'd from again.
Well
...
That's the problem...
Neither of my friends/guildies/pugs wants to have Master Loot on, even tho i say that it's the best way to prevent ninja's... So if i cut the connection with all of them, what's left for me to do, lol?
I don't get it. Your proposed addon doesn't prevent ninjas, and worse, it can incorrectly label people as such.
You're better off with a "Notepad" like addon where you can put notes on everyone you meet such as whether they are a nice person, that guy is a great enchanter, this person is a average healer, that person is a ninja, etc. And there is already lots of such addons available.
You're not getting the point we're trying to tell you. The addon you want is completely useless and doesn't do anything useful when a much simpler solution is available.
I don't get it. Your proposed addon doesn't prevent ninjas, and worse, it can incorrectly label people as such.
You're better off with a "Notepad" like addon where you can put notes on everyone you meet such as whether they are a nice person, that guy is a great enchanter, this person is a average healer, that person is a ninja, etc. And there is already lots of such addons available.
You're not getting the point we're trying to tell you. The addon you want is completely useless and doesn't do anything useful when a much simpler solution is available.
1. This made me lol, I believe you actually said that earlier in the thread (a lot earlier, like page 1 or so).
2. AuldLangSyne or whatever it's called - friends notes :) Add those you like to the list with a note why, ignore the "bad" with a note. All fixed. Or just write it down (you run out f ignore space after a while).
And Samala, I am one of those pallys. I am currently 59, almost full ret specced, but eventually I will be ret/holy (or even full holy), so I will most likely end up with 2 sets, one for healing, one for everything else. :)
You're better off with a "Notepad" like addon where you can put notes on everyone you meet such as whether they are a nice person, that guy is a great enchanter, this person is a average healer, that person is a ninja, etc. And there is already lots of such addons available.
Or just Cirk's Badapples if you just wanna keep track of the ninjas, idiots, and so on.
I don't get it. Your proposed addon doesn't prevent ninjas, and worse, it can incorrectly label people as such.
I never said i wanted something to prevent ninjas, i said that i wanted something to detect them easier, geeze...
Quote from Xinhuan »
You're not getting the point we're trying to tell you. The addon you want is completely useless and doesn't do anything useful when a much simpler solution is available.
I DID get the point, you guys just dont get my point, lol...
I do have, you just don't think i have/need it, since you guys are too familiar with Master Loot and such... and like i said, i never asked for your opinions and that's how this flamewar started, so drop it, gimme a link or shut up.
First an addon like Pawn would need to be made "complete" so that you can generate a useability rating for every class and spec for every item. Pawn is an addon that gives a rating for every item in the game based on the items stats. You decide how to weight the items stats. It's a generic version of TankPoints, Shadowpanther's AEP for rogues, etc. There aren't stat weights figured out for every class and spec yet. That's the hard part. Once all the weight sets are done, given a class, spec and item you have a useability rating for that combination. That useability rating would be your input to determine if someone is a ninja. Lots of work to do there as Pawn is pretty much a framework at this point.
But, lets assume that you get that done.
There is still lots of grey area.
Can a char actually use the dropped item? Classes have to train for some weapon types and they may or may not be able to actually use an item even though their class can possibly train to use that item. F.e., not all rogues can use Fist Weapons and depending on the number of other weapons types they have trained, they may not even be able to learn to use Fist Weapons (I'm one of those rogues). A Fist Weapon that's perfect for rogues drops. It's an upgrade for said rogue. That rogue, who doesn't know how to use Fist Weapons and can't learn how to use Fist Weapons, needs it. That's a Ninja roll that no addon will ever be able to detect.
You've also got the hybrid classes and off spec sets. A Ret Pally rolling on +healing gear is going to be hard for an addon to deal with. The item will probably get a bad rating based on their class/spec/equipped item rating, but if their goal is building the off spec set then it's not really a ninja roll. Especially if they've told the group in advance about their desire to get said off spec set.
But, getting back to this addon:
At every roll window:
For each char in group:
Get class
Get spec
Get inventory of slot of item that dropped
Compute rating of item in char's slot
Compute rating of dropped item for this char
Compare ratings
Display difference in ratings
Display roll
That's a lot of work and still leaves a lot of ambiguity.
That also hasn't touched on the storing and broadcasting of the Ninjas that this addon has detected.
Nor has it touched on how this database of Ninja's could be totally bogus and you're giving someone a bad name who doesn't deserve it.
Finally, this is all "after the fact" and "too late to do anything about it" information. I.e., once an item has been ninja'd you can't get it back. BOP is BOP, no way to undo it.
Turning on Master Looter for any instance run with more than 5 people solves the problem. The only way someone can ninja with master looter turned on is if the master looter isn't trustworthy. In that very rare case, kicking the master looter and the ninja (assuming they are different people) and/or leaving the group/guild is the answer.
Master Looter is still the best answer.
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Curse Premium/offtopic
There's restrictions on what weapon types each class can equip and use.
It's a long-time "feature" of the game.
I probably misunderstood the question but I mean what's noted in "Available Weapons" for each class.
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/classes/index.html
Each class has some restrictions on what they can equip.
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Curse PremiumI think Seerah was asking about this part directly. Samala is saying that while rogues can learn fists, if they've learned other stuff, they cannot learn fists because the available "extra skills" slots are full. Or something like that.
Although I've never had this problem. My rogue knows fists, daggers, swords, maces, bows, guns and throwing. I never had an issue learning them all.
At least a easy way to see what everyone rolled on on what item, since going through 20 pages or something just to check everyone's roll is a hardass way, witch im sick of doing, specially when you dont have much time to play...
But it seems there isnt such "advanced" addon out, so i guess this concludes the question at al, i guess.
But anyhow, if you DO code/find a similar addon like i was looking for, then gimme a msg, ok? ;)
Bingo.
Starinnia, try to go learn crossbows -- I've got crossbows where you've got fists. I get an error on my rogue whenever I try to learn Fists. Maybe I've got an addon interfering. Next time I'm in <whereever you train Fists -- Ironforge?> I'll have to try to disable all addons and try to train it.
Sure.
But I still think you are missing the point.
You can spend hundreds of hours developing an addon that figures out who the ninjas are. All the while you and your friends are having items stolen from you. Even after the addon is finished, you keep getting ninja'd and adding more names to your lists. Here a Ninja. There a Ninja. Everywhere a Ninja. Equipment lost forever.
*OR*
You can turn on Master Looter and never be ninja'd from again.
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Curse PremiumOld MacDonald had a farm. ee-ii-ee-ii-oh!
this.
Well
...
That's the problem...
Neither of my friends/guildies/pugs wants to have Master Loot on, even tho i say that it's the best way to prevent ninja's... So if i cut the connection with all of them, what's left for me to do, lol?
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Curse PremiumYou're better off with a "Notepad" like addon where you can put notes on everyone you meet such as whether they are a nice person, that guy is a great enchanter, this person is a average healer, that person is a ninja, etc. And there is already lots of such addons available.
You're not getting the point we're trying to tell you. The addon you want is completely useless and doesn't do anything useful when a much simpler solution is available.
1. This made me lol, I believe you actually said that earlier in the thread (a lot earlier, like page 1 or so).
2. AuldLangSyne or whatever it's called - friends notes :) Add those you like to the list with a note why, ignore the "bad" with a note. All fixed. Or just write it down (you run out f ignore space after a while).
And Samala, I am one of those pallys. I am currently 59, almost full ret specced, but eventually I will be ret/holy (or even full holy), so I will most likely end up with 2 sets, one for healing, one for everything else. :)
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Curse PremiumOr just Cirk's Badapples if you just wanna keep track of the ninjas, idiots, and so on.
I never said i wanted something to prevent ninjas, i said that i wanted something to detect them easier, geeze...
I DID get the point, you guys just dont get my point, lol...
Someone put this thread out of it's misery already.
I do have, you just don't think i have/need it, since you guys are too familiar with Master Loot and such... and like i said, i never asked for your opinions and that's how this flamewar started, so drop it, gimme a link or shut up.
http://files.wowaceofspades.com/NinjaProbe/NinjaProbe.zip
Just for you (since you asked so nicely)
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Forum Moderator/locked
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Curse PremiumYou made something to freeze up his wow?? Since that'd be what I'd do, since he was soooo polite in asking.
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Curse PremiumAnd it still needs locked. :)