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CTRA?! Yes! I don't just want it having an ACE dep, no, I foremost want it modular.
Its raidframes plain suck tbh, I like (my modified) nymbias the most atm (showing deficit hp and using highlighting), and when I have some time I will probably remove the buffs from Xraid and use those frames in combination with AUF or watchdog, we'll see..
The important thing is.. it has to be compatible with original CTRAs raid management, the MTs and their targets still has to be configurable by the raidleader, ready checks and everything else that's communicated via the CTRA channel has to be there. However mana conserve does not, neither does the raidframes (although I guess there has to be something in order to get the MT-thingy to work), or the buff/debuff handling.
I guess it'd kind of be like a framework where you could choose wich frames you'd want to use, which mana conserve addon you like the most, if you'd rather use needylist, decursive or anything else... and so on.
The idea probably needs some more work, but in general I'm sick and tired of beeing forced to use CTRAs raidframes for the MTs, an example of a good MT addon is vAssist.
The core of this idea is anyway that you should be able to use what fits you and your class best, for the MTs themselves CTRAs MT frames are probably quite good, however as a healer I'd take vAssist over CTRA any day, just like I'd do with Xraid over CTRA. Only problem is of course the requirement of CTRA in guilds, and by the raidleaders, which I very much understand.
If I would have had more lua experience/knowledge and more time I would certainly have a go at this.. But time, that annoying thing, is bugging me and I shouldn't even be by the computer by now, even less so on these forums *sigh*
If XRaid was extended somewhat, to allow it to receive input to set the MT etc... then you could probably create a simple Chat_listener for the CTRaid channel to set the MTs.
Appart from the MT windows, the only other reason to use CT_Raid is the messages, but these also get sent to the /RAID channel, so you dont need them that much...
And the boss timers, but you have most of them in Spellalert.. (well, you did anyway, before someone took over the project and decided that people should use CT_Raid instead, so he removed them..)
In an ideal world, I'd go for an Ace raid assist. But getting all our raiders to use RaidAssist was bad enough, without confusing them further by changing it :p Some of the guys I had to step through even the part of mod installation involving Windows Explorer. The pessimist in me (which kicks optimism's ass on a daily basis) says this would never really catch on wide scale.
There is really no reason for everyone in a raid to use the same raid addon any more. Everything you need is avaible through blizz events and functions. I recently dropped from a raid group that was doing MC etc because they had a requirement to use an addon called RDX. IMHO RDX was getting more ppl killed than it helped due to the bloat and lagginess it caused. Buts a different topic.
Timex is living proof that it's easy to create compatability. Hell, Chronos is now implementing Timex's features (yay them!) and I'm still easily patching through the support in two or three lines of code each. It's not a big deal to create a support file which would convert the data from one Addon to another. Hell, with the talented coders we have here I bet we could create a raid-frame system which could support multiple raid Addons, they all work off the same thesis, pass along the same kind of data and so on.
All I wish was that Moonsorrow was still around and nattering with us. Then we could ask him/her to work with us on this. Moonsorrow could get the frames in and provide the support or some of us could provide the support. I dunno, whatever works, really. I'm sure it's easily done though.
Feature list was what I was waiting to post. Even as I wrote that first post I was thinking of why they really "needed" ct raid. I'll get back to you :) Off the top of my head, I know they obsess over "ready checks" and commanders being able to put HUD text in middle of screen for directions.
As a healer I like the ressurection monitor. I'd like to see that expanded. I'd like to be able to see: Whose rez is in cooldown (druids), whose soulstone is in cooldown, who is soulstoned. As much comprehensive rez organization as possible. I've been told to battle rez someone before... and if they're soulstoned, they dont need mine. And indeed if I do cast battle rez while theyre soulstoned, the soulstone takes precedence. So they use the stone. but it still eats my rez cooldown too. That's crappy :)
I'd also like some kind of healing organization. I'm not going to cast Healing touch if a priest is healing someone (unless theyre taking big ass damage).
Maybe tracking how much incoming damage people are taking, estimated. Like, MT1 is taking ~500DPS, estimated time to live: 3 seconds. Triage help to know when there's nothing you can do to stave off damage on them, or get a big heal off quick enough, and just let them die and go on to the next one and save that 2 seconds of the 3.5 second cast that would have been wasted as they died.
I think the core reasons for using CTRA is target assigning and the ready check. And those are two very nice functions indeed, espiecally the target assigning. It just saves so much text chatter and misunderstandings.
I do understand why it's required, but I don't understand why it wasn't made modular from the beginning. And yes, as I said, I will probably move over to Xraid.. But I'll have to mess a bit with the code first :P
My problem is really that CTRA loads so much I don't want, but due to those few functions that do make the raidleaders job easier we use it. And trying to get an entire guild to change system is a rather big task. Are there even any good alternatives?
Feature list was what I was waiting to post. Even as I wrote that first post I was thinking of why they really "needed" ct raid. I'll get back to you :) Off the top of my head, I know they obsess over "ready checks" and commanders being able to put HUD text in middle of screen for directions.
Well you don't really want any of your priests, druids or MTs AFK while you go at a boss, someone might've had to rush away without having time to write so in the raidchat.. There are probably a gazillion of things that could've happened. And thus a ready check is a nifty, spamfree, way of knowing that everybody is here and ready.
As a healer I like the ressurection monitor. I'd like to see that expanded. I'd like to be able to see: Whose rez is in cooldown (druids), whose soulstone is in cooldown, who is soulstoned. As much comprehensive rez organization as possible. I've been told to battle rez someone before... and if they're soulstoned, they dont need mine. And indeed if I do cast battle rez while theyre soulstoned, the soulstone takes precedence. So they use the stone. but it still eats my rez cooldown too. That's crappy :)
I'd also like some kind of healing organization. I'm not going to cast Healing touch if a priest is healing someone (unless theyre taking big ass damage).
Maybe tracking how much incoming damage people are taking, estimated. Like, MT1 is taking ~500DPS, estimated time to live: 3 seconds. Triage help to know when there's nothing you can do to stave off damage on them, or get a big heal off quick enough, and just let them die and go on to the next one and save that 2 seconds of the 3.5 second cast that would have been wasted as they died.
Those are some nice ideas, especially the ressing part, an innervate monitor would be very good as well. However CTRAs built in res-monitor I don't really use, NeedyList really takes care of all that stuff for me.
Regarding the healing communication it sounds... like it could be hard to implement without a considerable amount of data beeing processed. Combat log wouldn't for example reach/be able to track in many cases, I guess I'd be willing to take that though, since at least some of my heals could be skipped.
I use needy list, as well. The CTRA rez monitor as it is, doesn't tell you all the dead bodies. I tells you in real time who is casting a rez and on who.
I was thinking a seperate addon that could be hookable that simply handled the CTRA channel thing would be good. Most of the reasons people "require" CTRA is because of those features (ressurection monitor, announcement window, etc), and not because of the unit frames.
Ya I would also recomend a split. A raid unit frame type addon perhapd wiht MT, MTT frames etc and then a CTRA assistant that worked in conjunction with the extra features of CTRA.
...To be honest that was pretty much what I originally suggested, although using the word "modular" instead :P
And furthermore with the word modular I tried to include different addons, in the way that one could choose between for example XRaid or some other raidframe addon wich both work with/under the core of this... CTRA framework? Naturally I would want a rather "complete" set of functions to begin with, but my ultimate vision is that people could choose what to clutter their memory usage with, while still beeing able to use the advantages of CTRA.
Hopefully I managed rephrase myself better this time :)
I brought this up with Anduin in the WoWi channel last night.. basically a CTRA lite that handled the /rs message, MT handling as well as the res monitor.
You still incur a penalty on parsing the chat messages, but we can just check the prefix and filter all non needed messages out. THis also gives you the comm channel for addons that piggyback on it.
I NEED to use Xraid.. but the /rs readycheck and other messages are important to me. TBH ctraid with just the comm section would be quite small, and wouldn't need a horrid amount of rewriting.
I've yet to find any raid frame AddOn that can show debuffs I can cure like CTRA does. I play a mage, I keep all 40 people's frames on my screen (I have them set to sit where the party frames are normally and have the party frames hidden when in a raid). Normally the frames are black, but if someone's cursed their entire frame turns a bright red. Oh, I need to cast Remove Curse. Done and done.
The ready checks, the assigned targets, and the encounter notifications (John is the bomb! 5 seconds to AE curse! etc) are also good reasons to use CTRA.
I've yet to find any raid frame AddOn that can show debuffs I can cure like CTRA does. I play a mage, I keep all 40 people's frames on my screen (I have them set to sit where the party frames are normally and have the party frames hidden when in a raid). Normally the frames are black, but if someone's cursed their entire frame turns a bright red. Oh, I need to cast Remove Curse. Done and done.
Tried Needy List? Not any frames per se but imho a very good way to know what has to be done (debuffs/buffing/healing/ressing).
I've yet to find any raid frame AddOn that can show debuffs I can cure like CTRA does. I play a mage, I keep all 40 people's frames on my screen (I have them set to sit where the party frames are normally and have the party frames hidden when in a raid). Normally the frames are black, but if someone's cursed their entire frame turns a bright red. Oh, I need to cast Remove Curse. Done and done.
The ready checks, the assigned targets, and the encounter notifications (John is the bomb! 5 seconds to AE curse! etc) are also good reasons to use CTRA.
I've seen that debuff thingie in Xraid, but I remember modifying it slightly to include diseases for me (I'm a priest). The name part of somebodys frame turns red for me when they're afflicted with either disease or magic (been thinking about changing disease to some other color, but I'm lazy)
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Its raidframes plain suck tbh, I like (my modified) nymbias the most atm (showing deficit hp and using highlighting), and when I have some time I will probably remove the buffs from Xraid and use those frames in combination with AUF or watchdog, we'll see..
The important thing is.. it has to be compatible with original CTRAs raid management, the MTs and their targets still has to be configurable by the raidleader, ready checks and everything else that's communicated via the CTRA channel has to be there. However mana conserve does not, neither does the raidframes (although I guess there has to be something in order to get the MT-thingy to work), or the buff/debuff handling.
I guess it'd kind of be like a framework where you could choose wich frames you'd want to use, which mana conserve addon you like the most, if you'd rather use needylist, decursive or anything else... and so on.
The idea probably needs some more work, but in general I'm sick and tired of beeing forced to use CTRAs raidframes for the MTs, an example of a good MT addon is vAssist.
The core of this idea is anyway that you should be able to use what fits you and your class best, for the MTs themselves CTRAs MT frames are probably quite good, however as a healer I'd take vAssist over CTRA any day, just like I'd do with Xraid over CTRA. Only problem is of course the requirement of CTRA in guilds, and by the raidleaders, which I very much understand.
If I would have had more lua experience/knowledge and more time I would certainly have a go at this.. But time, that annoying thing, is bugging me and I shouldn't even be by the computer by now, even less so on these forums *sigh*
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Curse PremiumIf XRaid was extended somewhat, to allow it to receive input to set the MT etc... then you could probably create a simple Chat_listener for the CTRaid channel to set the MTs.
Appart from the MT windows, the only other reason to use CT_Raid is the messages, but these also get sent to the /RAID channel, so you dont need them that much...
And the boss timers, but you have most of them in Spellalert.. (well, you did anyway, before someone took over the project and decided that people should use CT_Raid instead, so he removed them..)
Timex is living proof that it's easy to create compatability. Hell, Chronos is now implementing Timex's features (yay them!) and I'm still easily patching through the support in two or three lines of code each. It's not a big deal to create a support file which would convert the data from one Addon to another. Hell, with the talented coders we have here I bet we could create a raid-frame system which could support multiple raid Addons, they all work off the same thesis, pass along the same kind of data and so on.
All I wish was that Moonsorrow was still around and nattering with us. Then we could ask him/her to work with us on this. Moonsorrow could get the frames in and provide the support or some of us could provide the support. I dunno, whatever works, really. I'm sure it's easily done though.
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Curse PremiumIt has a gazilion features.. so.. which do you want? =)
As a healer I like the ressurection monitor. I'd like to see that expanded. I'd like to be able to see: Whose rez is in cooldown (druids), whose soulstone is in cooldown, who is soulstoned. As much comprehensive rez organization as possible. I've been told to battle rez someone before... and if they're soulstoned, they dont need mine. And indeed if I do cast battle rez while theyre soulstoned, the soulstone takes precedence. So they use the stone. but it still eats my rez cooldown too. That's crappy :)
I'd also like some kind of healing organization. I'm not going to cast Healing touch if a priest is healing someone (unless theyre taking big ass damage).
Maybe tracking how much incoming damage people are taking, estimated. Like, MT1 is taking ~500DPS, estimated time to live: 3 seconds. Triage help to know when there's nothing you can do to stave off damage on them, or get a big heal off quick enough, and just let them die and go on to the next one and save that 2 seconds of the 3.5 second cast that would have been wasted as they died.
I do understand why it's required, but I don't understand why it wasn't made modular from the beginning. And yes, as I said, I will probably move over to Xraid.. But I'll have to mess a bit with the code first :P
My problem is really that CTRA loads so much I don't want, but due to those few functions that do make the raidleaders job easier we use it. And trying to get an entire guild to change system is a rather big task. Are there even any good alternatives?
Well you don't really want any of your priests, druids or MTs AFK while you go at a boss, someone might've had to rush away without having time to write so in the raidchat.. There are probably a gazillion of things that could've happened. And thus a ready check is a nifty, spamfree, way of knowing that everybody is here and ready.
Those are some nice ideas, especially the ressing part, an innervate monitor would be very good as well. However CTRAs built in res-monitor I don't really use, NeedyList really takes care of all that stuff for me.
Regarding the healing communication it sounds... like it could be hard to implement without a considerable amount of data beeing processed. Combat log wouldn't for example reach/be able to track in many cases, I guess I'd be willing to take that though, since at least some of my heals could be skipped.
Well anyways, that's just one more feature that is useful :P
And furthermore with the word modular I tried to include different addons, in the way that one could choose between for example XRaid or some other raidframe addon wich both work with/under the core of this... CTRA framework? Naturally I would want a rather "complete" set of functions to begin with, but my ultimate vision is that people could choose what to clutter their memory usage with, while still beeing able to use the advantages of CTRA.
Hopefully I managed rephrase myself better this time :)
You still incur a penalty on parsing the chat messages, but we can just check the prefix and filter all non needed messages out. THis also gives you the comm channel for addons that piggyback on it.
I NEED to use Xraid.. but the /rs readycheck and other messages are important to me. TBH ctraid with just the comm section would be quite small, and wouldn't need a horrid amount of rewriting.
The ready checks, the assigned targets, and the encounter notifications (John is the bomb! 5 seconds to AE curse! etc) are also good reasons to use CTRA.
Tried Needy List? Not any frames per se but imho a very good way to know what has to be done (debuffs/buffing/healing/ressing).
I've seen that debuff thingie in Xraid, but I remember modifying it slightly to include diseases for me (I'm a priest). The name part of somebodys frame turns red for me when they're afflicted with either disease or magic (been thinking about changing disease to some other color, but I'm lazy)