Kaelten, i aggree, the problems have always been money - Look at the Fiasco that WAU has turned into.. but finatial support is IMHO after the fact to a Common method to a Updater.
if a updater method could be aggreed upon for all sites. then a dialogue or aggreement could be made that the updater (*shudders* Prolly WUU, and as much as We/I/lejordet hate to sugest or listne to) could display an add from the appropirate site as it downloads / checks addons from each site.. or something to that effect. or cycles each week to another site. ew i feel dirty for just sugesting that.
Fk , with UICnetral if u log in, you get no adds, and i think that would be worth while to look into & consider
but That will never happen if a common method cannot be aggreed upon, so it's more of an after the fact, that's why i'd like to conjour one up beofore considering ANY thing be changed.
If this becomes Viable, it would convince the other sites to change the way the do things a little that would in the end make things better for users as things would become consistent.
sadly no. Looking forward, and with more knowledge, we're much more likely to have a hostile environment and competing standards. In fact its already headed that way.
..."and to hell with the rest of the world." eh?
you present a rather pessimistic view on the matter Kaelten. It's rather childish for all-of-us, to suffer because the admins have a god complex about their web site, -not pointed at you. Tho your view is consistent with how the authors of KTM and Omen seem to just fling shit at each other in the curse thread, instead of pulling their collective heads out of their asses and doing something productive.
I guess asking for maturity in a Mob of People that seem rather intelligent is misplaced.
Kaelten seems to have given us our Final Opinion on the matter, being part of the Administrative Leadership of 2 of the 5 sites, id say that has some weight.
Then i bow out of this thread for good, no point in bumping a dead subject.
Honestly this standard would benifit lejordet the most as his program is the ONLY program i know if that updates with many sites.
Well, yes and no :) I know many people use WAU for the WoWAce addons, but WUU for the rest of the sites - something like this would be beneficial for "letting WAU keep its WoWAce market share" while increasing the WUU generic market share due to us reducing the chance of our updaters conflicting. Also, it would make it easier for users to switch between the two as needed.
WUU is the only updater (that I know of, at least) that handles multiple sites, yes, but that makes some of the code horribly complex due to there being no standards for addon .zip files :(
Ok..that came out the wrong way, I meant this but i said it the wrong way, it was unkind of me to say that considering what sylvanaar has done with WAU.
If this becomes Viable, it would convince the other sites to change the way the do things a little that would in the end make things better for users as things would become consistent. Even for those that want to update the old fashion way by downloading and upacking the zip, the file format would be similar between all addons.
Consider patch day, all anyone would need is to open An Updater, hit a few buttons and poof- everything is updated. No web based traffic for Images, XML BS, DB lag n' shit. then after the Patch Day Hell was over, things would go back to normal.
Another practical Example of this standard benefiting people, Guild Addon Compilations. Throw up an RSS of the Required Guild addons on the forums. then feed it into an Updater and you've got it all, no searching for the latest, or trying to figure out how to install it. just simple. UI Compilations, as the actual addon itself be just the /wtf/ folder, and the RSS has where all the addons are to install and directions on where to put the wtf files; it's a bit of a stretch albeit but it could work >.>
I've also been toying with the idea of tracking EVERYTHING that's installed - you just handle WoWAce, so you get all the "nicely formatted" addons when handling Curse, it seems like every other addon has a new way of packing the files ("<addonname>\*.*" (as WoWAce), just having the files inside the ZIP with no directories, "ThisHereIsMyAddon\PutFilesInInterfaceAddons\MyAddon\*.*" (not exactly, but I've seen something like it)), so keeping a list of files would be quite useful
IMHO, provided a standard can be conjoured up, this type of problem will dissapate. Either the site would generate the RSS data, and the site would enforce a standard .zip file structure, or the site might foce the simmiting party to create the rss file themselfs; the first being eaisier and the later being a nightmare.
<insert an aggreement with iejordet's previos post..>
*also one last thing to consider and whine about, as we've experianced here with WAU and has been dramatized about with WUU and worldofwar.net, some sites might require an add of sorts to be displayed while being downloaded or displayed as part of adopting the standard for a given site... tho this might be bettere handled by the updater program itself and not this standard.
I was thinking it might be a good idea to adopt some common conventions/standards for updater applications
To the other updater authors, would it be possible to agree on some sort of standard for the format and naming of these types of things.
Your Opening Post indicates that you'd like to create or colaborate about a "Multi-Site Unified Standard for Updater Programs"
Impliying it would be something that not only WAU can adopt but something that WUU can use, something that UICentral can use (http://wowui.incgamers.com/ui.php?id=2106), something that the Cosmos Patcher can use (http://www.cosmosui.org/distros.php).
So on your origional Premis of the Thread, Multi-Site handling is with in your scope as you are the one that opened the dialog. :D
The Logical Conclusion to any discussion of this type is that in the end it would be something that we, you , lejordet, would be able to contact other sites and attemt to sell / convince these sites to use.
Honestly this standard would benifit lejordet the most as his program is the ONLY program i know if that updates with many sites.
in reponse to your Schema for the RSS feed, that Schema would have to be modifiyed to actualy have the full path for the file download to update, as well as taking into account changes in file name.
Nicely said Kaelten : "I believe the important thing is to simply make it so that updaters don't step on others toes. Using one shouldn't bork the functionality of the others."
... ok so this thread finally went off in the direction i thought it would... :D
"Default Distribution" = The way the Zip file comes when a user or updater downloads off a given site, with out anything extra done to it.
Last night, brewing over this thread, I realized that there where a few addons that kinda stood out as far as how things are packaged and distributed. At least they stood out in my head. I came up with the following examples of rather common distribution type addons:
From Curse-Gaming: Deadly Boss Mods in Default Distribution is Modular by design in the root folder of the Zip file. the RSS/XML needs to account for this format of Distribution. this addon is considered complete as it has no req deps. (WUU seems to do a grate job at that already, so we prolly don't need to worry)
From ui.worldofwar.net/www.wowinterface.com: X-Perl while going to follow the same principal of DBM. Xperl has Optional Deps that need to be handled as far as source of where one can download the opt dependency and possibly from many sources. And because something like this would have to be compiled by the author or by a central repository or RSS feed for a site, must be taken into account that the opt deps might not even be listed in the rss feed.
From www.CosmosUI.org: PartyQuests in Default Distribution has Required Dependacys that MUST be downloaded in order for the addon to Function. Any and ALL required Dependancys should be listed in the feed and where to download them (mulitpal sources also be accounted for).
From files.wowace.com: Pitbull. ( <3 ck ) Pitbull in Default Distribution (with externals,not Unpacked, just un-ziping the file off of the files page like a normal person) is a whole and complete addon, with no option dependancys and simply the option to modularize the addon, and with embedded libs.
-Considering that the Addon by Default Distribution cannot operate with out it's libs either embeded or disembeded, an ace addon that has embedded libs is to be considered complete with no dependancys or optional dependancys, and that the libs should be left out of the RSS/XML file.
-Now for the modules the RSS/XML needs to define what folders are going to be moved and to where, shouldn't be that hard.
-For Ace Addons without Embeded libs, those libs MUST be listed as Required Dependancys and listed in the code file and ofc where to download. This has been accounted for already iirc by the updater rss, so converting it over to a common method shouldn't be hard. requiring the deps is done because that Addon cannot function at all with out it's libs, regardless if emb or dis emb.
--it seems that we've come to a casual understanding of what w're doing here.. would anyone be willing to type or conjour up a draft of said xml/rss file for the above addons as they are rather Archtipical of any addon you might see. That way we might start to hash out perticulars, i would but ive got to go to work soon IRL
sylvanaar , RSS works. as long as it covers the other stuff mentioned.
also a common Naming / definitions needs to be established, and they need to be in such a way that it won't matter wether its an ace addon or not. the WAU methods seem to be very solid, but the same dosn't apply for the stuff in the wild :D
im no Coder but i can Bull Shit something up to the effect of a standard like nothing else. so here is my 2c on the matter and to consolidate allready common ideas into one post:
-Considering the 2 following Stipulations--
1) The Standard will be used by more than one updater program. Currently being considered is WAU and WUU, but it would not be beyond the scope of the standard to extend to the programs used by World of War or CosmosUI Camps.
2) Considering that other updaters are simply interfacing with wowace as just another site rather than the only Line of Bizzness, Any form of executable / batch file cannot be included in the upacking or updating proccess, as this can lead to abuse.
2) Taking into Account the 2nd Stipulation, text coded files are the obvious choice of distributing / storing meta-data of any sort. XML has allready been mentioned as the format of choice.
1) Said XML file should include the following information for consistancy. Current Local Version (be it by SVN revision number or Date of Upload), Source of Addon and Particulars of downloading any sort of updates. Due to the Nature of Ace Framework based Addons some being Load On Demand or Modularized, should inlude the "Source Folder" to the Module, relavant to the \addons folder and the "Destination Folder" also relavant \addons. To Compermise with Pastamancer, this XML file should be local to the addon to allow for any setups, extras or specials. Changelogs shoule be considered independant to the updater and as just another file with the addon.
2) Conserning Libs - as Each Lib is, iirc, packaged to be it's own unique addon.
On files.wowace.com, Addons are Named as <Addon>.Revision.LibRev.zip where the Revision might not change but the Libs do, the updater might take this into special consideration and only update on a major revision change rather than a lib update. But, There is another directory / convention that WAU uses is to add "/no-ext/" to the dir path and grab the "With Out externals"-"Version". IMHO they are 2 differnet Addons and should be treated as such. The No-Ext version should have all the Libs listed as Dependancys because the addon will not function with out them. (The Viablity of the later idea is not yet been established).
3) Conserning SAL & Additional Information in the XML. Considering the special nature of the "StandAloneLibrarys" place holder. The XML fields should be allowed to Specify Externals not apart of the Central Addon and be able to list where the external can be downloaded from. This would account for the Strangeness that some of the CosmosUI addons do.
(god those ppl are weird)
.. those are the only things i could conjour up while at work..
Considering that inorder for this to work, we'd have to get the 4 other major addon camps to aggree, being Ui.WorldOfWar.net, www.Curse-Gaming.com, www.WoWInterface.com, www.CosmosUI.org, to include an .xml file in with their addons or generate it by the updater some how. WUU has the Functionality to grab addons from the various sites, so getting thats not a problem. It's the Modular Addons thats the problem.
For example, iirc, Deadly Boss Mods is a Modular addon but, it comes with all it's modules in the root of the zip file, and dosn't include a unpacking script of any sort. Also with Addon Collections, same thing, it's not one addon, it's many and differentiating the Modular Addons from the UI Packs when they look the same is gona be a pain.
Personaly, Changelogs are unique to the WoWCommunity because of the SVN, so IMHO it should not be covered nor touched by the updater and left up to the packing of the zip file, xpt for WAU becuase it's a sinle site program.
IIRC WUU uses a xml file in the root interface folder or in wow to keep track of addons and versions. rather handy when i reinstalled wow. i imported the xml/other file that wuu spit out and fwabam i got all my addons back..
i think the idea here as said is to have a unified consistant method to determin local and remote versions. the Method it'self i would think is irrelavant as long as it's aggreed upon.
iirc the nopack idea is from addons that have LoD stubs, like Periodic Table. where it has sub addons that are LoD if unpacked. if left as is when u download it all the subs are loaded when the game starts.
putting a .nopack file in tells wau not to un pack that particular addon as by default wau will unpack any addon flagged for it.