So this wasnt about him volunteering his time to document anything then?
I'm not sure what exactly you are stating here, but if you're questioning my willingness to get my hands dirty, i'd like to remind you that i already offered to "do everything i can". However, it seems that nobody cares to discuss the idea itself, and i even find a rather rude attitude towards the very fact that i dare to motion a suggestion for improvement. I've noted that you think it is a great idea though, so if you want me to go on with it, i will, but i need input to make it work right to everyones satisfaction. First we need a name for it: ideas: ReferenceAddon, Reference-1.0 or ReferenceLib (for library)).
Which Paradigms to showcase? LoD, embeds.xml, modules.xml, includes.xml? Others?
What naming conventions for libraries? For example, is it LibraryName-1.0 or LibraryNameLib?
Do we use a Libs dir or a libs dir or does it not matter?
There are probably more questions that are open due to diverging opinions about how to do these things. Any input, suggestions, and also declarations of support would be nice.
You are missing the bulk of the point of my suggestion here. It's nice that you both are able to supply *me* with the information you have about this specific subject. However, there are numerous subjects like this (TOC-file, LoD, embedding/disembedding, Naming of addons/libraries, packages), and i know they are second nature to you, because you where there when they where conceived, but they are not second nature to developers who are just getting into Ace2 - people who weren't there to discuss the pros and cons, and therefore don't understand the full extend of every decision made in the past. To further complicate things, these decisions are deeply burried in the forums, it's not enough to just find the information, you also need to know if it is current, or replaced by some other paradigm - it rarely obvious from a thread if it is outdated. It does not help the developers community as a whole that prefered practises are kept in the memory of a few lead developers. My suggestion is that we make a *very* small addon, that shows how to properly package a mod (toc-file, embeds.xml, libs-dir, etc.), so that it works in all deployment scenarios (zip-download, WAU w/wo externals).
To be perfectly honest it has been quite a pain to get everything working for VisualHeal during the conversion to Ace2. As i said earlier, finding information about how to implement an addon so it works in all deployment scenarios is almost impossible, because the information is scattered all over the forum. Look at the SVN, all addons and libraries use different paradigms for things that should be the same. You can't really blame the developers as long as there is no firm definition of what is right and what is wrong (or alternatively what works and what does not work when multiple addons/deployment methods are brought together). My suggestion is to collect this information and establish the firm and easy to read definition of how to do an Ace2 addon that behaves well when deployed. Although i view it as a very minor task to do this, and i will do everything i can to help do it, i still believe that it is the so called "Amazing Members" who should be the main contributers since they are obviously the ones who have the information needed to do it right.
When you say "all this" i think you're over-estimating my suggestion. I'm not looking for examples of library usage, only the framework of the addon (the things that influence loading). With LoD and the changes proposed by sylvanaar, it is becoming increasingly complex to determine how to properly "hook up" and addon to the Ace2 framework, which kind of defeats the purpose of Ace2 itself. The point was that it was much easier to write a reference implementation than writing documentation, which is quite apparant that nobody wants to do.
Quote from Shamino »
this is something you could do perhaps?
There's not much to be done right now, but i have no idea to which degree the suggestions of sylvanaar are accepted as the current way of doing things. It is my intention that whenever changes are suggested, and these changes are accepted by "the bosses", the reference addon is adjusted, which shouldn't take long, and imo is a just and fair requirement to put on the person suggesting the change. Changes could even be proposed as patches to the reference addon, to make it crystal clear what is being proposed.
I would like to stress that it is not my intention to create an addon that shows how to use the Ace2 libraries - it is *not* a tutorial in how to program. It is a reference that shows the practices currently employed for proper operation in real deployment scenarious (WAU, zip-download, stand-alone, disembed, etc).
Having read through all of this (after doing a search on embeds.xml to find out what it is), i am now, as usual when Ace2 is considered, more confused than ever. I like the fact that there is a community that experiments and finds new and great solutions (and on a sidenote i hate the unconstructive way Cladhaire always tries to convince everyone that they are morons and that what they are doing is stupid instead of delivering real input to the discussion).
However, i've no idea what are the current recommended way of structuring the TOC, and which support files i should make (embeds.xml, include.xml, modules.xml). This is a general problem i have with Ace2. Finding the information i need when coding for Ace2 is an experience like getting your teeths drilled. When i've been coding i've spent a lot of time looking over other addons to find out what to put in the TOC, how to write libraries and so on, how embedding works, and most of the time i find that the information i retrieved might have been right once, but isn't anymore because practices have changed, and naming convetions have changed. It really isn't possible to just "look over what others did" anymore, and it'll turn out to be a full time job to retrieve the information you need from the forums, because there are so many discussions about practices, and close to zero posts that states "how to do it", and even if there are, they might be outdated.
This is a suggestion:
Make a simple addon, call it Ace2Reference or whatever. It must implement every significant paradigm common to Ace2 addons. This addon does not do anything in particular ingame, but it is a reference for developers. You can look at that addon to see "how to do things". When practices change, this addon is updated to reflect the new practices. It would be a good idea to use a lot of comments to explain what, how and most importantly why practices are as they are.