I would love an option to disable the scripted controls for everything but the post editor.
Also, with regard to your comment about the "Quick Links" box... when JS is disabled, following that link simply reloads the page and replaces "Quick Links" with a couple of other links, none of which are tasks most forum visitors are likely to be interested in using frequently or ever (this is an addon development forum, not MySpace). I went into detail about this some pages back, but essentially, when JS is disabled, why force the page reload? Why not just show the extra links in the first place?
Also, the "sliding flying popups" are just divs with a absolute position and a z-index, CSS standard since forever, even before IE6 was even deployed, see my previous comment ;)
I think all of you "IE6 sucks, ignore it" people are missing the point that it does not take a significant amount of time or effort to ensure that people browsing with IE6 can still use your site, or even that your site is displayed reasonably correctly in IE6... if you start with good coding practices. But that's the problem here: the vB/CurseForge/WowAce design starts with the assumption that everyone can (or wants to) use scripted sliding flying popup dropdown menus to access basic site functions. If you start with that, and then try to reduce for IE6 users, it's a losing battle. If you started with the assumption that nobody can use that crap, and then add it for useragents that can, there's not really much extra work to be done.
The same applies for 90% of the things I've complained about in this thread. The initial design assumptions that everyone is running at a minimum of X x Y resolution with normal vision and normal motor skills mean that the site is significantly less usable for people who don't match those assumptions. Using the header graphic as an excuse for fixed width is just silly... there are long-established methods using CSS that could easily handle an elastic layout while preserving the integrity of the header. :(
As for IE6, I see no reason why it should be supported. We've moved on since 2001.
P.S. Web browser popularity got nothing to do with whether it's supported.
As someone who has worked in web development, I must strongly disagree with you. When you are developing a website that is intended to be used by the public (as opposed to an internal corporate website) -- especially if it's intended to generate revenue for you -- popularity is everything in deciding whether or not to "support" a specific browser.
However, as stated in my previous post, regardless of whether or not you are "supporting" a specific browser, it's just bad from all kinds of standpoints to prevent a user from using your website because of what hardware and/or software they're using to access it.
Strange as it may sound, the forum is actually more functional in a text-only browser than it is in an older browser or a "fringe" browser. When CSS is completely unsupported, all of the thread tools appear at the bottom of the page.
I get no dropdown list when clicking on the arrows at...
"Thread Tools" | "Searched This Thread" | "Rate Thread"
I'm using IE v6.0.2900.2180 here on this maching (at work). May this be the reason for that?
IE6 is almost certainly why the dropdowns don't work for you... but while I am strongly in favor of ignoring IE6 for the purposes of making everything look just as intended, I am just as strongly opposed to ignoring IE6 and other older or less popular browsers for the purposes of basic functionality. Important functions should be accessible and functional regardless of what software and hardware the user has, and I would 100% consider being able to subscribe and unsubscribe from threads, and being able to search in threads, as important functions.
Unfortunately it seems that the Curse Client is taking up everyone's time right now, and the outstanding issues with the websites are getting no attention at all.
That's all well and good, but it does nothing whatsoever to improve the catastrophic usability failure that is CurseForge. Today ALL of my projects were hit with the "stale" tag stating (essentially) "this project hasn't been updated in the 2 hours since the patch hit, so it probably won't work anymore and is probably abandoned". Most of my addons already worked with 3.0, but since just marking the last uploaded file as a 3.0.2 file did not clear the obnoxious and somewhat insulting "stale" tag, I had to re-upload the same file again for no practical reason at all. In the end, I just gave up and left half of my addons with this rather insulting tag on them, because I simply could not bring myself to deal with clicking through the half-dozen page loads to perform the simple task of uploading a file even one more time.
When I visit my profile on CurseForge, the most common thing I want to do is manage my projects. Why do I have to click AGAIN and load ANOTHER page to do this? The "home page" has no functionality whatsoever. Its only purpose is to force me to click through another page load to do anything. If the backend software is so badly written that it can't handle showing me useful information without loading 12 pages first, please, find some other software to use. If that's not an option, then find some way to give me one-click access to pages with actual functionality.
I'm sorry to rant like this, because I know how much I hate reading other people rant at things I have control over, but I just can't take it anymore. I've really, really, REALLY tried to be constructive, but it seems like the more constructive feedback I give, the worse things get. I'm about this | | close to removing my addons from Curse entirely because of it, something I've been tempted to do many times over the last few years, but have never actually been frustrated enough to do. Today might be that day. :(
Well, it's good to see that that functionality is available, but I still can't think of any good reason to break up the old page. It put all of the information in one place that only required one click and one page load to get to from anywhere on the site. The new set of pages is split up, requiring at least two clicks and page loads... or more if I want to get to both. I just don't see why this was thought to be a good idea. I have to ask... do the people who come up with and implement this stuff actually use the sites? Curse.com, CurseForge.com, and now WowAce.com are all usability nightmares, breaking everything down into the most granular items possible and making everything take multiple clicks and page loads to access. It's getting to the point where I don't even want to upload new versions of my addons, because it's just such a pain in the ass to perform such a simple task.
The issue occurs both on my home computer, running Opera, and my work computer, running Firefox. Most "lightbox" scripts I've used do not have this issue.
Also, since Kaelten seems to pay attention here, and there's not any way to just ask a question over on CurseForge:
Why was the "My Profile" page on CurseForge changed? Until today, it was a nice utilitarian page giving me an overview of my projects, tickets assigned to me, and tickets opened by me. Now, it's the same as the useless "home page" here on WowAce, giving me a listing of recent commits to my projects, and requiring yet another click to get to the actual list of my projects... which is inflated over multiple screens due to giving an excerpt of each project's descriptions. The ticket overview is gone.
Why was it decided that it was a good idea to require more clicks and more page loads to be able to manage my addons? The *Forge software already requires enough clicks and page loads to accomplish anything. This makes me sad.
Why does my project list now include giant description excerpts? Do you think people might forget what their projects are?
Why was the ticket overview removed?
Please bring back the old "My Profile" page for CurseForge. Using the old page layout here on WowAce would be nice too, although since I can't upload files here, I'm not managing any of my projects here. Most of all, please, please try to reduce the number of clicks and page loads required for every task. This is a huge usability annoyance... every time I have an update to post on CurseForge, I /sigh IRL. :(
Another issue: when viewing the page zoomed in, the "lightbox" image popups appear partially offscreen. Scrolling the page causes the popup to close. Regardless of where the thumbnail is on the screen when I click it, the popup appears too low on the screen. Suggestions: get rid of the scripted image popup, or use a script that is works with basic browser accessibility tools.
Unfortunately, this is simply not enough of an argument for business users. In the huge majority of large IT departments, IE6 is still the official and only browser standard. Hell, one of my clients is only now switching their hospital over to Windows XP! And they think that's groundbreaking. Point is: IE6 is still very much alive and well if you have a web site that needs to be accessible to everyone. You simply cannot ignore it, much as I'd like to.
That being said, WowAce isn't a business related site, and I would have made the same decision and chosen not to support IE6.
I'm well aware of IE6's lingering popularity, and I wasn't arguing for letting sites remain unusable or inaccessible to IE6 users. However, it's a waste of time to try to achieve pixel perfection for IE6, no matter what your site's purpose is.
Again, guys, this thread is for issues related to accessibility and usability -- not for asking Kaelten to merge your old posts, not for asking why you can't change your avatar, and not for discussing the login issues. I've moved all of the unrelated posts to the following new thread: http://forums.wowace.com/showthread.php?t=14363
I really don't get what you have against that color. Its been on WoWAce for ever, and has a good contrast, too (imho!)
Well, there's not really anything that's "not too different" that doesn't suffer from the same problems. The contrast isn't good enough for me... while the text size would be marginally okay at 140%, the contrast is so bad that I have to zoom more. Part of it is just that there's not enough raw contrast in terms of light and dark, but part of it is also that it's a very warm color and is very tiring to look at for long periods of time, especially if your eyes already have to work extra hard to focus on letters in general.
ya that'd do it. IE6 doesn't do transparent PNGs properly.
IE6 was first released over seven years ago (August 2001) and the last actual release was over four years ago (August 2004). IE7 has been available for about two years now, and most Windows users should have long since gotten it via the Automatic Update system. There is no excuse for anyone to still be using this grossly outdated browser with its abominable support for any form of web standards, and no excuse for web developers to hamstring themselves and their sites trying to maintain 100% compatibility with IE6 and other similarly ancient browsers (Netscape 4 anyone?). Thankfully, your response there seems to agree with my position. :p
The color I have problem with is the overall reddish tinted background. Sure its pretty light in color however its enough of a tint that it threatens to give me a headache if I look at too long (when I am hunting through threads to answer a question, that can be a very long time). Maybe someone with perfect vision has no issues with it, however with my almost "blind as a bat" vision, its hard to focus on the text. ... The current WoWAce theme's background color is like trying to look though a dirty window (especially a window with that red clay you find in the southeast US).
Generally in my experiance (I have done a lot of design work in the past), simple black text on white (or in some cases the reverse) works the best. The CurseForge default them works, my eyes don't get all out of focus with it.
Eh, I'm fairly photosensitive in addition to my other plethora of fun eye defects, and black-on-white is just too bright for me to look at for a long time. Some examples of sites with colors that have sufficient contrast and are easy on the eyes:
- DeviantArt; also note the options on this page - you can switch between normal and large text sizes, switch between serif and sans-serif typefaces, and invert the foreground and background colors. While the actual contrast is probably even less than here, and could stand to be improved a little, the cool colors make it much easier to look at.
On the subject of readability, what do you guys think of the basic typography (not the complete lack of non typography styles) on b-list.org I find his site, while I think too minimal, to be very easy to read and its that type of typography I'm thinking of bringing to the site.
It's readable, but I don't particularly care for the typeface.