I am an addon author. It would have been nice if everything worked before we switched but oh well. I like the new wowace site and forums and repository and many new features. I love the package building. I would like to know where the wiki has gone and there is a bit of a learning curve. I don't see the point in wowace and curseforge existing seperately and it leads to confusion there is so much overlap. But overall it's a good move.
And I don't care if someone makes money providing this free developer service. Good on them.
WowAce has always been a work in progress. Don't you remember the old forum skin I never finished? :eek:
Really though the main difference to me is the community.
We've always had a hellvu community, I think thats one of the most important parts of wowace.
I take insult to those kind of comments, I am a user of the mods...and no I don't contribute money! I'm a disabled war vet living on a fixed income feeding 3 kids. I feel like I play my part in the scheme of things, I attempt to find bugs/errors and report back to help fix the problems. And if there is nothing , I leave praise on for the author and rate them...but for you to say that basically the users are pieces of sh** really bothers me! If I had the I.Q. I too would make mods...but after a tour of duty it scrambled some things so I cannot retain memory very well.
I have always held the authors in high respect for their capabilities, but for comments like that I wonder...
Don't worry about tek, he's just a sour grape. Him, Arrowmaster, and Indy are all more bark than bite (well unless you're kinda into that kinda thing, then tekkub might bite you).
Problem here is that we really never expected things to go the way they did, It was in all honesty a accident.
Indy is a down right kitten compared to what he used to be though :P
I don't think anyone is arguing that change wasn't needed. I saw the bandwidth monitor in WAU and did wonder how many people used WAU. I just wish the transition was either 2-3 months ago or done gradually over time.
Taking aay WAU and replacing it with Curse (in it's current state) was like removing heroin from addicts and replacing it with cold turkey. Of course people will get used to the new system, but not without a whole load of bitching.
We're working hard to catch up to speed as fast as possible. I really wish I could do more myself, but many of the projects are out of my hands directly.
That and I only have so many productive hours a day :s
Ok, I'll try to be calm and polite, but if you're happy with what's happening, don't read ahead.
Let me summarize and let's see if I have everything clear:
1) ACE is a "developer community" it's right in the logo, top left of the page)
2) ACE had a massive growth over the time, way unexpected maybe, but nonetheless an incredible success
3) the amount of money needed to run and maintain it is no more affordable by normal means
-> a solution had to be found
Proposed solution: migrate and join Curse, since they founded ACE in the past.
This is where all started from, if I got it right.
Now, however, the problem arises, and I'll try to divide them in sections:
Section 1: Curse policy and Curse "behavior".
Curse isn't a no-profit organization, it's a company. I'll refrain to start consideration about Curse owners, because it's really unimportant. Curse is a company, so it have to make profit. Where do profit arises from ? Well, Curse have many (too many imho) advertisements, and that's a HUGE money income. No problem, it's market. They offer a service, it's their right to have incomes.
Problem is: why ppl go to Curse site ? Simple: because Curse hosts the addons, so developers willing to spread their work will post there, and users will go there to get them. Without the developers the users wouldn't go, no web pagehits, no advertisements, no money. So basically they're USING developers to make money. That's perfectly fine, but what about the developers that did NOT wanted to post on Curse and they used another, free, open way to distribute their work ? Who had the right to move them to Curse ? Noone in my opinion. The ones that are caring about this will soon remove their work from Curse, with more problems and angriness from the users. Who's to blame about this ? Think about it.
It's bloated, bugged, it went tru massive beta phases and STILL it have inconsistent behaviors. It have features that re-enable themselves (autoupdater) and it send you to Curse web pages when you try to disable them. It doesn't support basic things like libraries unpacking (afaik) and it doesn't give enough control to the user. Its sources are not public, leaving doubts to its real behavior (I don't believe it's a trojan, but noone can prove it) and it uses a proprietary protocol, trying to block 3rd party updaters. Last but not least it's SLOW. Oh... and let's not forget that its promised MacOS version is promised but not even close to be considered an alpha release (from the reports I had). And let's not talk about UNIX users, I tried to use it tru Wine and I had a good laugh.
When had the transition to be done ? When WoW 3.0.1 patch is about to come of course ! As is exactly when people will NEED to update ACE mods. So basically forcing them to use the new Curse updater or be screwed. And for MacOS users to be screwed in any case. Yes, you CAN update your addons manually, but try to do it and unpack libraries. You have to be a developer to do it right. Try to download a "basic" addon like Omen, you'll find yourself with a very outdated version. Sure, in the transition there are always some issues, but NOT if you work in IT. I do, and we're trained to let them NOT HAPPEN, or we're just fired. BTW, the very first thing we learn is: keep the new and the old service running in parallel for at least 15 days. Try the new service and THEN, after a ton of messages and warnings, do the final teardown of the old system.
All this can't be due to random events. Trust me, it's not a random crap. Someone decided that the transition had to be done before WotLK, no matter what. If possible before 3.0.1 patch. And that in order to have a lot of new customers installing the new Curse thing, because only with that they could fix their issues.
Curse Client (it's a client, not a simple updater...) development:
Closed, based on wxWidgets. Mmmm... why not Java ? Java is portable, can have good UIs, a Java application can mimic perfectly the UI of the horst it's running into. Go check OpenOffice. BUT Java apps are quite easy to reverse-engineer, as is the proprietary protocol used for updates and more would had been exposed. Isn't it ? Moreover the only released client (windows) despite its beta phase is still lacking of features and its behavior is far from good. It's not even a release candidate if you want my opinion.
I suggested a friend to try it, and the first thing she said was: "luck I stopped it before my whole addons folder was erased".
Curse Client "premium" services:
See point 1. The client is able to let you update your addons without visiting Curse web pages, hence lowering their pagehits and lowering the advertisements incomes. Hence Curse HAD to find a way to have an equivalent income from those using the client. This is economy, baby. But still... I'm using an updater to get FREE stuff (the addons), why should I pay YOU? I'd gladly pay someone else instead. Or at least I'd like to be able to choose. Instead of subscriptions a real marketing analysis would had suggested to push ads to the clients, with a premium service removing the ads. Eudora mail client had that for years. Premium service to enable features is just... CRAP.
Addons should be syndicated by Curse... let me skip this point because i could become offensive. I've seen so much crap on Curse web site I hardly believe they're able to syndicate when they have to change underpants. Come on, they're not even able to check their web pages for browsers compatibility... On MacOS I have to use Firefox 'cuz Safari can't render their pages correctly... and Safari is not a piece of junk.
The missed opportunity (or the short minded boss):
Yes, in the whole thing you missed a f***ing great opportunity, to make money and to do something really important. You forgot to analyze the problem. However I'll just outline the problem, since I'd like to propose MY solution to the open-source developer community (btw, Curse is NOT a community, is a COMPANY) and to the computer science academic community. I think we can get a good number of public and private investors, hence I'll keep the idea for myself right now.
Let's state the problem:
- addons: made by small development groups, short snippets of code, usually under open-source, free copyright systems.
- addons developers: in total, a huge number of people, including developers, translators, etc.
- users: many, in the order of 100.000 to 1.000.000
- downloading frequency: from once per day to once per week.
- total bandwidth used: incredible
- total storage used: not so dramatic, but still high
Solution: none *right now*, beside the brute-force one: central distribution, lot of hard disks, lot of bandwidth. Bound to be extremely expensive. Soooo, there is space for what we call IMPROVEMENT. It's a strange thing that goes together with forgotten ideas like *research* and *innovation*. But you missed the train.
Anyway, to summarize: I'm totally pissed off with what's happening. I'll be forced to use Curse Client as well and this makes my stomach hurt. But the pain will always make me remember what was the ACE logo: "developer community". Thanks guys, you contributed to create it, and then you've sold it and killed it. You should be proud. At least I hope you'll get a good cash from this, as 30 coins aren't enough.
Ok.. the forums ate my original reply ( I sooo want to find out whats doing that)
So I'll make this one short and sweet.
We are a business at Curse, we do want to make money. No reason to deny it. So do youtube, sourceforge, and many others who's main content is user generated.
We agree the authors deserve a lot more than they get now (which ranges from nothing to the occasional donation). Which is why our AuthorsRewards program is being started along side premium.
A portion of the proceeds from Premium will fund the AuthorRewards program.
We will be offering games, time cards, consoles, and amazon gift cards along with other things to the authors for all the hard work they've done.
Also the bug you mention in the client is fixed as of yesterday.
The mac client is working fine (or at least equivilent to the windows client) in most regards, I'm a mac user.
Also please don't pitch your idea here. We do have a general policy against non solicitation. Also it sounds like your idea will probably have something to do with p2p.
We've thought of it, as have many people in the community, its not a good idea. And since that'd put your company( yes company since you'dhave investors) in a position to profit not only on their hard work, but also on your users bandwidth. Wasn't that similar to your criticism of us?
Regardless. Yes there are issues, we are working as fast as we can to fix. them.