Perhaps it was a little overzealous of me to say that, I can get a little eager sometimes but that's only because of the absolute idiocy I see on servers. Thanks to the joys of gestalts, I both understand where you're coming from ATC and at the same time, I disagree. Allow me to explain that.
I agree that you should be allowed to play the character that you desire to play, yet I disagree that you should bear any allegiance to the Taurens of Thunder Bluff. In fact, it would be reasonable for you to disavow any Brotherhood with them and live in Thou Nee. That's how I'd see it from a lore standpoint. To say that one should be a Grimtotem who's a warmonger and that Cairne would happily accept this is ... a little ludicrous.
Especially since the Grimtotem have an uneasy alliance with the Centaurs (it would seem) and the Centaurs are the most hated enemy of the Taurens (far more so than the Alliance).
On the other hand, I agree you should be able to forge your own lore and destiny. So wouldn't the correct solution be to offer both sides of the fence? After all, they're putting new servers up every day and it'd be nice if just one server would be a true RP server where lore would be enforced and anyone breaking with lore would be punished for it. Action and reaction and all that, if you commit a crime andsoforth, much as I've said everywhere else. I'm all for anarchy but I don't like it when people can freely play some kind of diety, who's apparently better than everyone else. I hate that mindset. Anarchy and equality through action and reaction, is a good thing.
Action without reaction? The Universe collapses into one big mess.
All I'm saying is that I'd like to see one server where, if a Tauren were to commit war crimes and crimes against the nature of their own people, they could be held accountable for it. At least on one server. I don't think that's so unreasonable and I'd love to see it. In fact, this is one of the problems I have with games today. They're so damned lawless and in an environment where there're supposed to be laws, this in my mind just doesn't work. I'm all for people being anarchist and batshit crazy but I believe they should have to pay for their crime in equation to the type of crime it was.
I guess I'm too absorbed in honour and justice.
Anyway, I don't see why they couldn't put up a server where people could be judged as War criminals. I'd have such a lauugh if I saw someone with lots of dishonour points getting chased out of Thunder Bluff (as a Tauren) by the Bluff Watchers and not permitted in. I think it'd be nifty if the dishonour system actually affected reputation and could put you at war with your own faction. Then I think it would be even niftier if on just one server, there was a committee (as I'd said) which would dole out dishonour points to anyone deserving of them.
Just once I'd like to see the kind of idiot that alex pointed out get his ass kicked severely by Cairne. It would be very satisfying.
Okay alex, point taken. Though my point wasn't meant to be as strong as that, I merely wished to point out that they were ... how can I say it? It was iconic. I know it exists today too but it was far more iconic in the past. Just to sidetrack a little further, I wholly adore Freedom Force because it merrily takes the piss out of the whole affair. I collect comics and I have a lot from the Golden Age and they were very blunt and heavy-handed about how they dealt with different affairs, lacking some of the subtlety of today's media and this was entirely my point.
My point was that although there were exceptions to the rule and even though they might've felt that at the time, it was justified, there was still a lot of typecasting of peoples and beliefs in comics and that was iconized to a great degree.
My point was that I feel this is carrying over to Warcraft to a degree and I've noticed that even the general media will often consider the Alliance as "good" and the Horde as "evil" due to that iconization. I've read your post and I agree with what you've said in the final paragraph. Hell, I agree with everything you've said but what I speak of is the public perception and how it tends to lean to this ideal.
For example, I recently read an article on the Blood Elves and how, simply because they're a part of the Horde, they must have machiavellian machinations (I love saying that) in place and that their home is "somehow elegant yet carrying a dark and ominous essence to it." and yes, that was a quoting, it might've been paraphrased a bit but it was near enough. So we have this kind of typecasting. Now it might not be implied at all that one is evil and one is good but because there are two sides, it is usually implied by the communality and their psyche that one must be evil and one must be good.
Hell, I even see this is City of Villains. Sure, they're anarchists and they have some level of criminal intent but I'll be damned if that makes them "evil" ... but I'm straying here.
I just wanted to stress my point, not that I disagree with you in any way, shape or form but with two sides presented and typecasted, it can mean that people will perceive them as good and evil. Now the average person, not so open to something ugly being good (this is a growing phenomenon I find, in the past we had literature and even television that taught us that things that were somewhat ugly could be good people but today, in the media I find an ever growing representation of very beautiful and very primped people being presented as heroes, whilst anything that's unseemly, old, ugly or whatever is, opposedly, the villain) and they opt for their more common grounds, their more beautiful to be their good.
This means that we have a good versus evil rift where there isn't supposed to be one because neither side is really evil.
So I'll wrap it up with that, I didn't mean to come over the wrong way with that, I was talking more about iconization and the public perception rather than the actuality of the affair, if you get my meaning.
Yup. Back when I was playing I really did my bit as the morality of the Horde -- because that's what the Tauren really are. Hell, I even spent some time in Dun Morogh on one server, helping out the lowbies by taking out anything that was about to kill them dead and making it clear I was there to help, otherwise I just watched and didn't make an ass of myself. All in the name of hopefully creating better relations between the Alliance and the Horde. I think that if all people played their Taurens as well as I did, we'd have a Peace Council setup already and this civil war would be mostly over by now.
I really congratulate those who know how to play their race, though. It's a good thing to see and I really praise people for it. It's just my nature to love a good roleplay and I think that's why I moved onto City of Villains. Where there you'll actually find a good team to roleplay with, in Warcraft the response to roleplay or actually upholding lore is "lawl rollplayrs".
Hm, I wish there were organized RP committees for the Warcraft RP servers, I'd so get involved with that kind of thing if there were.
That's actually not true of the Tauren at all, at least if people know how to play their race it isn't. For those who've followed the Tauren lore and actually taken note of the Tauren quests, they're nothing short of benign and the most merciful race of all those on Azeroth. The main problem is the people, they just don't know how to play their damn race. This is one of the reasons I came to dislike Warcraft because it laid down a lore and didn't bother to enforce it. I prefer CofV/CofH instead because people lay down their own lore and enforce it as they want to.
Anyway, as a Tauren who knows how to play his race (possibly one of the ... oh, two on any server), I was responsible for great acts of mercy. I saved Alliance people from certain death, I accompanied some and helped them quest, I tried to pacify skirmishes (which was really silly and ended up with myself dying), I tried to influence raids to be purely defensive rather than turning offensive and to guard our lands rather than invading others, I even organized a few peace walks which involved the Horde and the Alliance wandering around Azeroth being spat at and called traitor by almost everyone (haven't these idjits ever encountered the Argent Dawn?).
It doesn't really come down to the Horde or the Alliance being bloodthirsty, per se. It just comes down to people being jerks and because the Horde look more "ugly", apparently they must be more evil, that's how it is in the minds of most people, even though the lore directly contradicts this. It's the same as people who believe the Alliance are saints because they're obsessed with "beauty" and "prettiness" and naturally that must be good. It reminds me of the 60's in comic books when "evil" was Russian or Poor and "good" was Capitalist or Rich.
I just wanted to add my thoughts here anyway because I don't think the Horde are vicious or bloodthirsty at all, that's just people. According to the Horde, as far as the Taurens and the Orcs go at least, they're good peoples. Now if only more people paid attention to the damn lore. Though I don't see that happening any time soon.
--- Edit ---
Just to add to that, the amount of evil Tauren around really surprises and annoys me and I feel the need to educate some of them with a heavy stick. I mean, okay, let's say they haven't seen the lore ... even the intro movie backs this up. Everyone else is wielding weapons or fighting and being violent in the Warcraft intro and ... what is the Tauren doing? In the first instance he's doing nothing but sprinkling magical fairy dust over Mulgore. In the second the poor Tauren gets blindsided by a Dwarf Hunter (probably whilst picking flowers).
Blizzard really needs to enforce lore on RP servers, otherwise there's no point in having it at all.
Everything that's said here is so true. It's rare that one actually finds a group that's fun. I have an amazing track record of being taken seriously when I shouldn't (I self deprecate a lot and everyone takes it at face value) and I freak the living hell out of some groups. Why, only the other night on City of Villains ...
[local] Primal Alpha: Pff, you call that a crime? It's only a true crime if the the most overweight security guard is left butt-naked and convinced of his part-time carreer as a ballarina, prancing amidst the most unseemly bank-wide orgy this city has ever seen. Now that would leave superheroes in need of therapy and that, my friend, is a crime.
*Coughs.* Primal Alpha being my really twisted mind-controller and some people don't appreciate his black, British humour.
Yup, I likes the RP servers when they're not pretentious asses about it (oh and they can be). Some of them just have too much of a stick up their arse and they can forget that even roleplayed characters know how to have fun. Still, when you find a good server or a really ingenious and inventive group, it's golden and downright uncomparable. My favourite gaming experiences are roleplaying with a talented group. It takes a lot more feeling around on an RP server to find good people but the rewards are definitely worth it, I'd say.
As for PvP ... that's the only part I wouldn't like. ;p I'm an explorer and I like being able to go wherever I want unchallenged (providing I don't walk into enemy cities or attack/aid someone who's flagged). I'd hardly be able to keep up my visits to places like Teldrassil and Dun'Morogh if people were killing me all the time as I attempted my peaceful envoys.