2) Grid2 has strong working defaults. Grid2 and its enabled plugins automatically configure themselves into a working configuration with no setup required other than maybe sizing and placing frames to your choice. The goal is a working setup using your chosen plugins, customized for your class / spec.
I completely accept your point. If we ship with one layer we break the current Grid2 out-of-the-box settings. I'm just saying that in an ideal world we'd avoid the complexity of layers for novice users. Sadly I don't have a perfect solution.
However it is definitely possible to ship with one layer common to all (say just health bar, debuff icon, and agro indicator). The win is that new users don't have to worry about layers, the loss is that out of the box grid2 isn't so useful.
So is the tradeoff worth it? Well that's always going to be subjective. At what piont do you say this is adding too much complexity out-of-the-box without helping enough?
The actual lib already supports this. However I just do not know if it is something we want users to do. It is maybe ok for a math phd, but we need this to work for regular users as well.
The bottom line is this: are there enough and appropriate layers to solve 95% of the issues. If your heal / dps layer is added between account and class I think the answer is yes.
Remember at heart I'm a proponent of using 1 layer all the time, with an option - for every advanced users only - to add additional layers. I think that shipping with account->heal->paladin is a really poor idea, and account->paladin->holy is just as bad. I think it needs to be as simple as it possibly can.
If one layer is too trivial, could we at least limit it to account-><class> out of the box?
This part is interesting in that it potentially means multiple inheritance.
Eeek! You say that like it's a good thing :o
I understand your point, you're saying you may wish to configure the frame settings independantly to the indicator settings. But equally I'm sure you acknowledge things could get very confusing very quickly. Layered settings are very new, and I think it's important to get the basics right first, before looking at this stuff. I actually have a much neater solution to this problem, but let's save that for another thread rather than derail this one.
The obvious thing (in my mind) is that frame and layout also have a layer associated with them (just like indicators). Then I can configure my layers: account->heal->paladin, or account->raid leader->warlock and the frame sizes will do what I expect.
Rather than trying to work our what the perfect layer configuration might be. What do you think of my idea of having a panel for configuring whatever layers the user wants, and what layer the current class / spec should be set to? I think this is a much stronger solution.
I'm not quite with you. For me the difference between account->heal and account->dps is that the former takes up 30% of my screen and shows lots of info, while the latter is small and shows only range and raidebuff. That's quite a fundamental difference! I don't know if you've extended layers to cover frame / layout settings but I assume that's on your wish-list?
The point of layers surely is that everyone will have their own view of how to arrange them. If you mandate account->class->spec, well that's the mistake wowdb profiles made.
I kinda imagine it this way: Grid2 would have a layer settings panel where you can add layers to the layer heirarchy however you choose. On this panel you also configure what layer your current character / spec is set to. I think this will satisfy everyone. The other nice thing about this is that if I want to change my current layer I can do that without changing spec.
Does this make sense to you?
Thanks for fixing dungeonrole. Feel free to propogate / modify opacity. Personally what you suggest seems like an implementation detail to me. The only win is if you wanted, say, different opacities on different raid icons (skull 0.8, cross 0.6 etc) or similar then my opacity implementation doesn't allow this - but honestly can you think of any time you'd want something like this? Still it's fine by me if you want to do the work :P
Interesting. I understand the problem you're trying to solve. I know that with many other mods aceDB doesn't cut it, you end up making one set of settings, copying it to all your profiles then adjusting each one repeatedly.
Now I'll confess at this stage that when I first heard of your layer idea was was very sceptical. The key concern being that layers are potentially fiendishly complex - how on earth can the configuration be managed sanely? However on refleting on what you've put in now I see that it can be made workable. And, crucially, it's no worse than the current AceDB profile nonsense [account->realm->class, I mean seriously who uses per-realm settings? and why no per-spec settings?!]
Still, there is one really good point about AceDB Profiles - That is: If you've no idea what Profiles are - it doesn't matter! I'll bet that most users of most mods never touch the profile settings. They just adjust settings and the changes get saved. End of story.
So - could I suggest that rather than automagically creating layers for every possible class / spec, you keep the default layers to a minimum for basic users, whilst allowing advanced users the ability to make layers however they want? Case in point, the layers currently are account->class->spec, but I'd want account->heal->Paladin and I'm sure others would want different things.
The simplest default would just be one layer: account. The downside of this is it limits the out-of-the-box functionality since you'd have to settle on lowest common denominator settings. Still it could be done, maybe there could be a set of prefab settings that the user could choose from? Do people use out-of-the-box Grid anyhow?