You'll find Grid 2.0 in branches, but I have no idea if it's anywhere near usable at this point. I'm sure Pasta/Jerry/whoever else is working on it will make a post when it's ready for alpha/beta testing.
Now, I was wondering, the plugins for Grid to show HoTs, why? I just added them manually to the Status watchers and boom - works fine. Though the extra indicators I may use :P
Apparently people want to distinguish their HoTs from other people's HoTs, see the durations of HoTs, and see the stack counts of HoTs. Personally I think those wanting all of this HoT-specific information should use a specialized HoT tracker/timer to supplement Grid. There's simply not enough space on Grid to show all of that information without it becoming massively cluttered.
to you, the manabars might be unsightly, but to thers they can be very, very useful -- f.e. is a certain healer low? call for them to be swapped into the shadow priest group a bit.
warlock low? tell them to tap down, you'll heal them up.
healer low on mana? help to compensate in their assigned role.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what information does a mana bar contribute to these situations that a binary threshold indicator does not? Depending on your class or raid role, set the threshold accordingly.
If you're a resto shaman wanting to know when you should drop Mana Tide, set the threshold to 60 or 70%, and when you see the blue squares/borders on the majority of your group, you're good to go.
If you're a raid leader wanting to know when you should swap someone into a shadow priest's group, set the threshold to say, 30%... or you could just tell your raiders to pay attention to themselves and speak up if they're running low on mana. Good raiders also shouldn't be depending on a shadow priest. They should be conserving mana as needed (i.e. 2-minute fight? Go nuts and burn your mana dropping 3k heals on people who are down 500 hp, and drink up afterward. Long boss fight? Pay more attention, downrank heals if needed, cancel long-casting big heals if the target gets healed while you're casting, etc.) and using mana consumables, not crying that they can't play without a shadow priest.
Warlocks should just use Life Tap when they get low on mana, without prompting.
I can't think of a single situation where it's necessary to know the exact amount of every raid member's mana, or where scanning over and mentally processing 20 mana bars is a faster way to see who's low than seeing 5 blue corners pop up.
1) True. Another idea: I've seen addons that show first-time users a "welcome" dialog with basic setup tips and a URL where more information can be found. I think this would be a lot more helpful than "class-aware defaults and you're on your own now." Especially given the mockups of the new config I've seen, as it will be much more user-friendly and make it much easier for new users to figure out how to configure things.
2) Better documentation FTW. Even better if a URL for the documentation is prominently available in-game.
3) What do you need to explain? If someone is "completely unskilled", they don't need to be sharing their setup with anyone yet, and if they know how to install addons (which I'd assume they do if they installed Grid) you can easily tell them where to put your saved variables file that you send them or send them a link to. Or they can suck it up and spend a few minutes looking through the settings and figuring it out themselves. A more newb-friendly configuration is already on the to-do list.
4) No, but maybe you missed mine. By default Grid already shows Renew, Power Word: Shield, Weakened Soul, Rejuvenation, Regrowth, and Lifebloom. I believe differentiating your own HoTs from other healers' HoTs is already on the to-do list for the next Grid.
5) There are no in-game options. Open GridLayoutLayouts.lua in a text editor. Find the layout you use. Find the pet group (hint: it's last) and change the class filter to show only hunters.
- defaults should be smarter: show the debuffs I can cure (center icon + top indicators ?) depending on my class, show the buffs I can apply (bottom indicators ?). Auto detec my class, and adapt. Prioritize the center icon by default, too.
Top and bottom indicators are not part of the base Grid package; only the four corner indicators. Class-aware defaults would be nice for new users, but I'm not sure how well that would work for players who use the same Grid setup on multiple classes and don't want to be bothered hassling with character- or class-specific profiles. What do you mean by "prioritize the center icon" ? Personally I use it only for showing debuffs I can remove (poison/disease), as it obscures the center text and much of the health bar at sizes large enough to make it distinguishable.
Quote from Stormy »
- include, or at least centralize info about, addons. Everybody wants pets, mana indicators, corner indicators...
Not sure what you mean by this. Grid already supports pets, has corner indicators, and has a low mana indicator.
Quote from Stormy »
- indeed, make sharing my perfect config with others easier
C:\Program Files\World of Warcraft\WTF\Account\<AccountName>\SavedVariables\Grid.lua
Upload it and give out the link, attach it to a forum post, or send it to someone via e-mail or instant messenger. IMO in-game layout sharing is not necessary at all. I've never downloaded and used anyone else's UI or addon configuration... quit being lazy and just spend 5 or 10 minutes changing the settings yourself.
Quote from Stormy »
- incoming heals and hots status are somewhat lacking. I'd like Grid to show my renew / prayer of mending / shield and shield debuff by default, and, separately, other healers' HoTs, heals ... I still need DOTimer to do that right now.
You can already configure Grid to show Renew, Prayer of Mending, Power Word:Shield, and Weakened Soul. In fact, by default it includes indicators for all of those things but PoM, and you can add that simply by adding a new buff. Very easy. It also shows other healers' HoTs (by default), and there's also already a plugin to show your HoTs separately from others'. The current version also shows others' incoming heals, provided the other healers in your raid are running Grid, VisualHeal, PitBull, or even just LibHealComm-3.0 by itself.
Quote from Stormy »
- pets should be differentiated or at least "hidable" by class: who cares about an healing an imp ? Maybe even by specialization, BM hunters (like mine) would be grateful, and MM hunters wouldn't notice.
You can already filter the pet group to show only hunter pets, or only warlock pets. Due to Blizzard limitations you cannot filter by spec, but you can filter by name... not sure if you can filter pets by the masters' name though, haven't tried.
Quote from Stormy »
- very flexible. New boss with new stuff to decurse ? Custom Indicator, problem solved. (A shareable database somewhere would be nice, you must have 100s of user everywhere rushing to WoWwiki to input all those new curses into grid.)
In most cases you don't need to set up new indicators for new boss abilities, since the existing curse/disease/magic/poison indicators will cover anything you can cure. The health bar dropping plus the lack of an aggro indicator is really all you need to know about non-curable debuffs that deal damage. GridStatusHealingReduced will show you who has a healing reduction debuff on them. And there's GridStatusRaidDebuffs on the files listing, which adds an indicator for important raid boss debuffs (requires BigWigs), although I can't vouch for how well it works since I haven't used it myself.
Basically, Grid is designed to be small, fast, and include only the essentials. It's designed with a very open API for plugins; I don't think it's necessary at all to merge every plugin in the world into the core. All problems with "I didn't know Grid could do that" would be solved by better documentation, both of the core addon (initial setup/walkthrough for new users, and advanced configuration options) and an up-to-date listing of plugins with better descriptions than the files page. A "new user guide" would also help people who download the addon blindly on a recommendation and are surprised by how different it looks than what they're used to (traditional horizontal bars).
I find the side indicators are good places for infrequently displayed items like Ready Check status and missing buffs (out of combat and only raid-wide AI/MotW/PW:F, no messy Blessings!)... since nothing is normally displayed there, it makes them more noticeable. I don't use them for constant/combat statuses, though.
None of these require cluttering up 25 frames with another bar, when the "low mana" indicator works perfectly for both. If you're a resto shaman, set your "low mana" indicator to 60%, and when you see enough people in your group light up, drop your Mana Tide. If you're a druid, set it to something lower and filter out classes you wouldn't Innervate. Both are much cleaner than unsightly mana bars for your hunters and warlocks. Although personally if I get below about 50% mana I'll use Mana Tide regardless of my group's mana status. :P
- If a groupbuff is applied with someone non PvP flagged targeted, PvP flagged groupmembers don't get the buff
- Later on during the fights, unless specifically targeted, group heals or multiple heals (think shaman) won't heal PvP flagged people, there may be issues with things like shadowpriest mana regeneration too
I didn't know these kind of spells distinguished between flagged and non-flagged players. o_O
Hmm. I assume most players use the second center text (or wish they'd realize there's a hidden setting to enable it)
Oh I know there's a setting to enable it, I just don't use it. Too much clutter.
Quote from maia »
I think the indicator priorities should be at the end as you'd usually first set up the status, then move down in the left pane and define the priorities.
During inital setup, maybe; I was thinking more of things I'd want to configure more often over my total time using the addon. Although I'd still argue that if you had good defaults, most people would be more interested in configuring where a status was shown on the frame than in configuring what colors to use for the status. Going back to my ready check example, I'm sure the "yellow = no response, green = ready" colors work wonderfully for the majority of users, so the most common way people would want to modify this status would be to configure which indicator to use (top left corner, border, etc) rather than changing the colors.
Quote from maia »
People playing on a PvE server do not want to accidentally spread a pvp plague near any 25man instance. My raid tells flagged people to zone out, try to escape alliance until the flag wears off, do whatever they want but stay away from the raid. Besides that, if you don't care about the pvp status, just don't enable the setting :)
Hmm. I still don't see why it matters if you're PvP flagged while you're inside a 25-man instance, or why you'd need to buff or heal or do other flag-spreading activities outside the instance, or why if you get flagged you can't just zone in. I don't play on a PvE server, though, so I guess I just don't see the problem. :P
Quote from maia »
I agree, and I think its technically possible to sort by class but still have 5ppl per column. As for 'special' layouts, someone might provide an optional module that allows you to define your personal group setup, and once you've 'saved' it, it could show up in the drop down selection. Same for the 'dynamic layout' module, that could have it's own config screen, but it's added as option to the general sorting drop down so you have all options available in one menu.
It's more than techincally possible to sort by class within a single (wrapping 5-column) group; I use just such a layout now. My concern with a built-in class sort is that the default alphabetical class sort isn't very useful. I have mine set to sort like this: warrior, rogue, druid, paladin, shaman, priest, mage, warlock, hunter. This way classes that are always in melee range are shown first, followed by hybrids that can be melee or ranged, followed by classes that are always ranged; there's also a bit of healing priority in there, as you can see with warlocks and hunters (who shouldn't really ever need heals) at the bottom.
Just a couple things that jumped out at me while going over your mockups:
1. "Upper Text" and "Lower Text" -- hopefully it will still be possible to use just one text, in the center of the frame. To this effect I would suggest sticking with the current "Text 1" and "Text 2" names for these indicators.
2. It appears that "Unit Name" is no longer considered a status. While for the most part this is fine, since the name can really only be displayed as text, this concerns me, as I use the "GridFriendlyNames" plugin that was posted by someone a while back to alter the displayed names for certain people, either because their names are identical when truncated to 4 characters, or because they go by something other than the first 4 characters of their name and it's easier to locate them when their name text is something I recognize. (Plus it's fun to change the names of people who irritate me. :P)
3. From what I've seen, the Ace3 GUI gives you three levels of options... logically, I think a sorting like this would be better:
- Text 1
- Text 2
- Health Bar
- Top Left Corner
- Buffs and Debuffs
--- Missing Buffs
--- Curable Debuffs
--- Raid Debuffs
--- Healing Reduction Debuffs
--- Incoming Heals
--- Heals Over Time
- Raid Status
--- Raid Icons
Generally once I pick a color for something, I don't need to do it again, and am more likely to be switching around indicator locations... hence my placement of Indicators above Status Properties.
I'd take "PvP" out of there... I watched the discussion culminating in a PvP plugin for the current version of Grid, and I'm still not sure how PvP flag status is remotely relevant to any aspect of raiding. The argument I saw was that on a PvE server you'd want to avoid buffing people who were PvP flagged in order to avoid becoming PvP flagged yourself... the only time I can see this being an issue at all would be with world bosses like Kazzak and Doomwalker, and even then, are you really going to gimp your raid by not buffing or healing or otherwise touching people who are PvP flagged?
As for "MT Status" I'd like to request giving users the choice of using Blizzard MTs or oRA2/CTRA MTs. My guild uses the Blizzard MT markers, but also requires that oRA2/CTRA be installed so that the raid leaders can track raid cooldowns etc. I don't know if there are currently and MT indicator plugins for Grid, but I know that PitBull won't display Blizzard MTs if oRA2/CTRA are installed, and I'd prefer Grid didn't also make that assumption.
With the indicator priority screen I'd like to see that dynamically update... for example, if I have "AFK" set as the third priority, and I then select "AFK" as the first priority, my previous first priority shifts down to second, and previous second shifts down to third. As this is possible with the current AceOptions system (see Numen for a great example) I'm assuming it will be possible in Ace3.
Finally, I hope there will be something like "/grid lock" to quickly toggle the locked status of the frame.
Oh... I brought this up before, but didn't see any response... I've seen quite a bit now about the simplified layout options, and would like to know if it will still be possible to create more complex layouts. I don't need in-game layout generation for this; the current hard-coding system is fine. But having "sort by class or by group" and "show raid pets?" and "display only max instance amount" will simply not be enough... in a 40-man raid group sorting that way was fine, but now sorting that way makes an ungainly sprawl all over my screen with two people in one class group, nobody in another, and five in another. And sorting by raid group doesn't help me effectively focus my yellow healing lasers. :)
[Edit] In response to the post about a "simulation mode", I'd like to see this as well. In general I like PitBull's "configuration mode"... but I'd suggest that changes made while in this mode should not be applied without confirmation.
Heh. I agree with whoever posted suggesting an "Advanced" configuration... come up with your optimal defaults, and leave a limited set of options available by default, but let advanced users get at the full set of options. While better defaults may make Grid more accessible for new users, no defaults will ever satisfy every user.