Ok this has possibly been asked before or im in the wrong forum.....what is happening is when i dps the test dummies in IF/Stormwind my damage metre is showing me an average of 5/6k+ damage But on recount it is only showing me an overall damage of 3.3/4k dps and never going much higher When a spell prots it does between 10 and 12k damage....I am strugling to see how they can differ...is it me being a noob and not setting it up properly or is there a fault....also i have noticed that in a raid ur place on dps list differs from everyone else's ie mine can be showing me as 4k dps but it is readin say 5k on one persons and 3k on another...Have i missed something or are my setting incorrect.... Not been specfic on class etc as i have 4 ICC raiders and the problem seems to be on all......Again sorry if question has been asked or if asking in the wrong place
In raids the differense usually boils down to the combat initiation (ie when does the addon start collecting data) and when it stops collecting. The exact timing for collection start varies a bit between members in the raid depending on a number of things, also dependant on what addon they use (for instance Skada and Recount use different methods for detecting combat/when to start/stop collecting data) the same goes for when it stops the data collection.
As you may have guessed, I'm making my own dps meter.
I'm having two problems I can't explain.
- a player with very low damage done, has also really low dps in Recount. Look at the screenshot, and tell me how you can do 22dps in 3 hits for a total of 7900 damage. This happens in every dungeon - the healer doing some low K's damage, has always nearly impossible low dps in Recount.
- secondly: I'm having a problem with hunters and warlocks. I mean with their pets included ofcourse. In Recount, their dps is always higher. So I did a solid test. I watched this warlock - if he started attacking, so did I, if he did nothing, so was I. I'm pretty sure we have more or less the same combat-time this way, in theory, but apperently not in the addons. Altho I did more damage, the lock still has more dps. Explain this to me, if you know that I almost always started attacking AFTER he did, so my combat-time must have been less than his. Most of the time, we both fought until the group of mobs was dead and went out of combat.
So, not in doubt about Recount's total awesomeness and crazy features, I still would like some thoughts about this matter, in order to make some things clear for myself and my little addon :-)
If a fight lasts for ~360seconds (~6min) and i do a few spells as healer totaling ~7.7k dmg then i have done ~22dps (7700dmg/360sec)
If im not misstaken recount listens for "combat started" to start counting the time, and thats not nessesarely when you started attacking.
I am aware of what it does but I would like to see how often our rogues are casting it.
you could look at the info for it on WMO logs, don't think theres any addon atm tracking how many times its cast thou. Most of them seem to be focused on alerting if you have ToT on you, and announcing it being cast (thou that might work aswell if someone has time to watch chat)
I think a "Damage done to Shields" would be great for regular recount. It's going to be really interesting when we get to deathwhisper and she's shielded entire first phase. that and twins are perfect examples of fights where dps matters to shields, but cannot currently be monitored.
There is a plugin for PhoenixStyle called TwinValkyr_shieldmonitor that tracks damage done to twins shield by source, and reports it either in chat or in a reportwindow, it also report all damage done to the wrong target (not counting aoe /cleave dmg) during the time the shield is active. (along with a bar representation of the damage done vs castime).
Maybe it would be possible to look at how thats done and cook up a plugin for it?
We don't need to discuss that the recount numbers are perfect how they are and that all i wrote about it is a mismisinterpretation due to individual fail. Players like you and me and propably anybody else in this forum know what good and successful playstyle is and that it's no simple expression in some numbers.
My point is, there are many other players that just take dps as target function (because the content isn't enough performance meter at all) and start to act silly. This is my target group. They feel the need for a performance meter and use the best thing they get - which is for example RecountDamageDone. You can tell "no a single Recount isn't the tool for this purpose, use your brain" as much as you want, they just do it.
So why not create some addon which has the goal to provide some kind of performance numbers? Why do you do addons?
The other point, the raid. You basically say "if your RL is using Recount numbers this way, let evolution run". But I can understand his actions. We run some kind of weekly random raid with a solid core in ToC25 and heroic version. We don't know everyone and just sometimes just don't have enough damage or heal for the hardmodes. What should he do? He has to decide within seconds, and he has no data like experience or personal knowledge. I think you all join raids with a long history and a good base etc - you just don't need something like that. Others do.
I just need to know if there is interest in developing this kind of module. I've done it as far as I could, but without help I'm not able to finish it.
Well, frankly its not Recounts job to counteract ppl being retards or not knowing how to play...
There is no way to help those cos no matter how many different values you give them they will still be "I R DPS , me do good dps when AoEing the CC targets" there is nothing that will help that.
They don't care if they have 0 dispells/interupts cos "i R dps i do dmg", they don't care if the break CC 100 times cos "i R dps, aoe is good dps". If the RL don't know how to evaluate performance and how to incooperate recount as a tool for making that easier then he needs to learn how to do that, no addon can ever do that for him. If he can't maybe he should let someone that can do the leading.
Addons like recount is a tool to be used as a part of an evaluation, its not supposed to do the evaluation for you.
For me this is a relevant discussion, because the issue won't go away with offering the merge, just like DPS hasn't gone away as an issue. The right thing to do would be to not merge but I know what happens if I go there. The best pragmatic solution is to merge but that opens a whole host of issues for me too. It's just bad luck that too many discs want the merge when really it's not a good solution.
Maybe make an optional module for those that wants it merged?
Sorry I can't compare Evasion-like abilities to shields. The former are cooldowns, the latter are spells you'll constantly cast to heal (yes, heal). You say "Recount's role is to allow to analyse what is going on and see things grouped by their general function in the fight." Well yeah, exactly... shields are part of healing in general. The mechanics are different in that it's not a direct heal, but a shield being used up. The intent is the same, disc priests are there for the same reason other healers are there: to survive. And yeah at this point, it is semantics, not the mechanics being clear. If I need to compare a disc priest to other healers or another disc priest (and I dare say I understand the difference between heals and shields), I'll have to add their effective absorption and healing done anyway (generally speaking anyway), so how does keeping them separate help raid leaders? I know how to use skill details and go in-depth if I have to. That's why I keep talking about intent, not mechanics. To me, this is what matters and what I need Recount for, rather than being technical about how a shield works.
But either way, it's not open to negotiations and you'll add an option to toggle it, so I guess that's that. Well, assuming the API does exist...
Bottom line is shields does NOT restore health thus has no business being listed as a heal, its not a heal, heals are HP restored.
That's fine. I do think it's a healthy discussion to have though.
Where we disagree is that I do think healing and absorption do the same thing. They help you survive. I'm just looking at it from a higher level than you are. It's a question of point of view or semantics even.
And to me, the difference between Evasion and a shield is fairly obvious. With a shield, you do get hit, the shield absorbed it. You don't get hit with evasion-like abilities, you dodge. Also using shields allows the healer to cast less healing spells. They have a direct influence on Healing Done which is why, to me, keeping them separate is flawed. I don't see it in the same light as dispells. Dispells get rid of damage, but shields don't make damage go away, they still deal with it. In other words, you're compensating for incoming damage with shields as opposed to getting rid of the damage completely. To me, heals and shields are the same. Shields are just an extra tool, just harder for some to wrap their heads around because the shield is there before the damage happens instead of after, like regular heals. It's still the same intent.
Etiher way, as I said, it's a point of view, I guess. I hope you see where I'm coming from though: I want to see who helped others survive, not how they did it. There's Skill Details for that. And as much as I tell everyone I know not to use a healing meter to judge healers, I think this would go a long way towards helping others understand what is going on.
All it will to is to make it harder to see whats really going on, and meterfreaks will still sit and judge healer on totally irrelevant stats.
To me, that's like saying each dpser's abilities should be a different entry in Damage done, because they do different things. Yet they don't... they all do damage. Shields or heals do the same thing: they keep the player alive. The detail should show in skill details, but be combined in Healing Done. And even if shields can save a healer from a hit bigger than their HP, I don't see that as a reason to separate shields from heals. You can have heals that are bigger than the amount of health a player has lost too... it's the exact same thing on a different scale. According to GC, you'll still see exactly how much the shield absorbed anyway. Finally, shields may be proactive but you wouldn't get credited with any amount until damage is actually absorbed, so again, I don't see the difference.
But either way, let's see if it's even possible first.
Damage is damage nomatter how its done, but a shield is not healing done, its damage prevented its not the same thing.
Agree on the ignoring them, but I still don't see why it should be separate from healing done. The end result is the same.
Pretty much since its NOT healing done, its damage prevented, its 2 very different things and the end result is very different.
Healing is reactive and all it does is top em off after taking damage while shields are proactive and prevents the damage from even occurring and allowing the caster to keep healing other targets at the same time.
And like i said, shields can prevent a player from dieing even from damage above their max HP.
In the end id say its more valuable to clearly see them separately to get a more detailed overwiev of the fights and the performance.
While that's true, I don't see it as a reason not to include absorbs in the "healing done" totals. Absorbs negate damage, same as effective healing does, and it'd be incredibly useful to me as a Disc. Priest to see an accurate in-game meter of how my heals + absorbs compare to other healers' heals.
If your concern is that absorbs should be valued even more than heals, well, you could presumably still see the breakdown by spell when looking at the details for someone's "healing done" bar, which would show exactly how much they absorbed.
Better to have absorbs as their own category and just learn to ignore meterhorny morons :p