Had a look in the CTRA channel during a raid tonight, and it was actually less spammy than I expected, the single biggest actor in the channel was the buffing communication, thus I think the queueing system can be left to the author of the buff handler :twisted:
But I'll wrap something together and I'll see if it works.
@maia: Yeah, that was (in general) pretty much my plan, the core might not even have the /rs command in order for people to choose the plugin which has the layout/functionality that fits that persons UI best.
Handling the CTRA channel seems to be a real piece o cake, however CTRA also has a message queueing system, which I havn't really had a chance to look closer at. What I wonder is if this is really needed if the plugins are written decently. Shouldn't a throttler for parsing channel data be of more interest? Is there some spam protection built in to WoW doing evil things with people running addons without message queueing?
CTRA compability will largely be up to the plugins to provide, there has been some "RaidAssist" addons that have tried to be better than CTRA, the problem as I see it is converting a whole guild to it since everyone would have to switch. If the structure is more open a guild can more slowly "convert", or at least the user himself could hopefully use compitable plugins while not having to use the entire package. Which is obviously at least the first goal.
As instant said people get a ton of information of the CTRA channel, the question is how to maintain compability with CTRA while not having to actually send all that crap load of data over the channel.
I have actually already begun thinking of a name... but I want to hear if there are any good suggestions here first :P
It won't in any case be "AceRaidAssist", as much as I like the ACE way of doing things I like "different" names that we also have quite a lot of here.
I will have a go at it, but loads of functionality will be up to the community to supply in plugins/replacements. Just havn't had the time to write anything yet, although I have looked at the CTRA core and identified several channel-commands etc.
I am seriously considering writing at least the core part, however currently I'm swamped with exams and stuff.. In February things should be more calm for me, on the other hand I've planned to do so many things then that I might not have any free time anyways :roll:
Regarding all the discussion wether a function is "essential" or not there is one very simple answer, the ONLY thing that is truly essential is some sort of core capable of listening for channel changes and channel commands (the hidden CTRA one).
The whole point is that different classes need different parts of the package. I hate it's frames for example, not because I don't need them as a resto druid, just because I don't find them clear enough.
So a little puny core that fetches the correct channel, switches to it and listens, then able to parse commands and data for other addons. Or thinking about it, maybe it's enough really to fetch and set the channel? When writing the "modules" for it you can just get channel info from the core... Wah, sounds so simple and quick to write :roll:
I've yet to find any raid frame AddOn that can show debuffs I can cure like CTRA does. I play a mage, I keep all 40 people's frames on my screen (I have them set to sit where the party frames are normally and have the party frames hidden when in a raid). Normally the frames are black, but if someone's cursed their entire frame turns a bright red. Oh, I need to cast Remove Curse. Done and done.
Tried Needy List? Not any frames per se but imho a very good way to know what has to be done (debuffs/buffing/healing/ressing).
...To be honest that was pretty much what I originally suggested, although using the word "modular" instead :P
And furthermore with the word modular I tried to include different addons, in the way that one could choose between for example XRaid or some other raidframe addon wich both work with/under the core of this... CTRA framework? Naturally I would want a rather "complete" set of functions to begin with, but my ultimate vision is that people could choose what to clutter their memory usage with, while still beeing able to use the advantages of CTRA.
Hopefully I managed rephrase myself better this time :)
Feature list was what I was waiting to post. Even as I wrote that first post I was thinking of why they really "needed" ct raid. I'll get back to you :) Off the top of my head, I know they obsess over "ready checks" and commanders being able to put HUD text in middle of screen for directions.
Well you don't really want any of your priests, druids or MTs AFK while you go at a boss, someone might've had to rush away without having time to write so in the raidchat.. There are probably a gazillion of things that could've happened. And thus a ready check is a nifty, spamfree, way of knowing that everybody is here and ready.
As a healer I like the ressurection monitor. I'd like to see that expanded. I'd like to be able to see: Whose rez is in cooldown (druids), whose soulstone is in cooldown, who is soulstoned. As much comprehensive rez organization as possible. I've been told to battle rez someone before... and if they're soulstoned, they dont need mine. And indeed if I do cast battle rez while theyre soulstoned, the soulstone takes precedence. So they use the stone. but it still eats my rez cooldown too. That's crappy :)
I'd also like some kind of healing organization. I'm not going to cast Healing touch if a priest is healing someone (unless theyre taking big ass damage).
Maybe tracking how much incoming damage people are taking, estimated. Like, MT1 is taking ~500DPS, estimated time to live: 3 seconds. Triage help to know when there's nothing you can do to stave off damage on them, or get a big heal off quick enough, and just let them die and go on to the next one and save that 2 seconds of the 3.5 second cast that would have been wasted as they died.
Those are some nice ideas, especially the ressing part, an innervate monitor would be very good as well. However CTRAs built in res-monitor I don't really use, NeedyList really takes care of all that stuff for me.
Regarding the healing communication it sounds... like it could be hard to implement without a considerable amount of data beeing processed. Combat log wouldn't for example reach/be able to track in many cases, I guess I'd be willing to take that though, since at least some of my heals could be skipped.
I think the core reasons for using CTRA is target assigning and the ready check. And those are two very nice functions indeed, espiecally the target assigning. It just saves so much text chatter and misunderstandings.
I do understand why it's required, but I don't understand why it wasn't made modular from the beginning. And yes, as I said, I will probably move over to Xraid.. But I'll have to mess a bit with the code first :P
My problem is really that CTRA loads so much I don't want, but due to those few functions that do make the raidleaders job easier we use it. And trying to get an entire guild to change system is a rather big task. Are there even any good alternatives?
CTRA?! Yes! I don't just want it having an ACE dep, no, I foremost want it modular.
Its raidframes plain suck tbh, I like (my modified) nymbias the most atm (showing deficit hp and using highlighting), and when I have some time I will probably remove the buffs from Xraid and use those frames in combination with AUF or watchdog, we'll see..
The important thing is.. it has to be compatible with original CTRAs raid management, the MTs and their targets still has to be configurable by the raidleader, ready checks and everything else that's communicated via the CTRA channel has to be there. However mana conserve does not, neither does the raidframes (although I guess there has to be something in order to get the MT-thingy to work), or the buff/debuff handling.
I guess it'd kind of be like a framework where you could choose wich frames you'd want to use, which mana conserve addon you like the most, if you'd rather use needylist, decursive or anything else... and so on.
The idea probably needs some more work, but in general I'm sick and tired of beeing forced to use CTRAs raidframes for the MTs, an example of a good MT addon is vAssist.
The core of this idea is anyway that you should be able to use what fits you and your class best, for the MTs themselves CTRAs MT frames are probably quite good, however as a healer I'd take vAssist over CTRA any day, just like I'd do with Xraid over CTRA. Only problem is of course the requirement of CTRA in guilds, and by the raidleaders, which I very much understand.
If I would have had more lua experience/knowledge and more time I would certainly have a go at this.. But time, that annoying thing, is bugging me and I shouldn't even be by the computer by now, even less so on these forums *sigh*